[Rhodes22-list] Was Main Sail Speed, now Jib Sheets Changes
Jay Friedland
jsail1 at verizon.net
Wed Aug 24 15:00:29 EDT 2005
Ron, and other UPS users-
I was thinking about universal jib sheets with snap shackles for quick
changes. I was hoping to use this for two purposes- 1) bringing jib
sheets inboard as I reef (I have the current 3 position sheeting setup)
and 2) UPS sail change using the same set of sheets. Another advantage
if I had the right hardware would be to overcome the current
"fold-over" knot at the clew catching the stays on tacking (sometimes
due to sloppiness, sometimes even with a precision tack). With the
right snap shackle or connector to the clew, I could have it spliced
into a new set of jib sheets, coming down from 7/16" to 3/8".
Any hardware suggestions to replace the common knot? There are sister
clips (twist and lock) and snap shackles with a finger release rather
than the pull pin which I think will get caught.
Thanks, Jay
On Aug 22, 2005, at 10:55 AM, David Walker wrote:
> Ron,
>
> Thanks for the info. I've been looking at the UPS or equivalent, also
> the
> vertical battens. Does that increase main area much?
>
> Also, changing headsails in the CDI furler is highly overated
> especially in
> high winds. The internal halyard ( at least mine) has a lot of
> friction
> making raising the sail and making off the halyard and tack a fun
> procedure
> even on the hard let alone on the water.
>
> Dave
> David Walker
> David Walker Photography
> davidwalkerphotography.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ronald Lipton" <rlipton at earthlink.net>
> To: "David Walker" <dwalker at alum.mit.edu>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
>
>
>> David,
>>
>> Your comments are pretty much on the mark. The 175 does have some
>> failings, especially in extreme (high or low) winds. You can do
>> several
>> things that will help (and cost money)
>> - With the CDI furler you can switch to a smaller jib in high winds.
>> I
> have
>> the GB furler so my only choice is to furl and go to the inboard
>> tracks.
>> - Several boats have the UPS sail, which is made of light cloth, can
>> be
>> furled,
>> and is carried behind the 175. I have only used it a few times so
>> far,
> but
>> it is
>> the clear choice in light winds.
>> - I replaced my old IMF main with a slightly hurricane damaged
>> vertical
>> batten sail
>> I bought. I find that the boat is easier to balance with this sail
>> and
> the
>> main has
>> increased drive. It makes a real difference.
>>
>> Ron
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Walker" <david.walker5 at comcast.net>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
>>
>>
>>> Phyllis,
>>>
>>> I've been watching these emails go by but have not had the time to
>>> respond.
>>> I sailed my recycled Rhodes for 2 seasons with a traditional main
>>> and a
>>> 135
>>> genoa, and then traded with stan for an IMF with 175 on a CDI furler.
>>> (BTW - my best research at the time - Stan wasn't too much help as
>>> the
>>> standard masts are old- was that if you switch masts will need to
> replace
>>> the standing rigging as the masts are not the same height)
>>>
>>> My experience is that the standard main and 135 sailed a little
>>> faster
> and
>>> pointed higher. With the IMF rig most of the power comes from the
>>> big
>>> genoa
>>> and the main is basically balancing the sail plan as in the mizzen
>>> of a
>>> ketch or yawl. I reef the genoa first then reduce the main to keep
>>> balance.
>>> My experience is the boat will not sail well at all with just the
>>> main
> out
>>> and will not tack.
>>>
>>> There are three problems to this: 1) the big genoa does not sheet in
>>> close
>>> enough to point that well. It is worse when reefed. 2) the big
>>> genoa
> is
>>> made of relatively heavy material and does not perform well in light
> wind
>>> aft of the beam due to it weight. 3) When sailing in high winds in
>>> a
>>> small
>>> keel boat, it is usual to ease the mainsheet in gusts to keep the
>>> hull
> on
>>> its lines. With the already small main reefed, you don't have much
>>> to
>>> dump
>>> and you need to keep a fair amount of jib out for speed.
>>>
>>> Is all this bad? No just different. Would I go back to a standard
>>> main?
>>> No. In fact the IMF has been keeping me from seriously looking for a
> boat
>>> in the 28-30' range. For my sailing, the absolute ease of sail
>>> handling
>>> makes up for a few more tacks going up wind, and when the J24's pass
>>> me
> I
>>> take solace that when they are furling and covering mains and bagging
>>> jibs,
>>> I'll be relaxing in the cockpit or already on the lauch heading for a
>>> restaurant.
>>> David Walker
>>> S/V Windspept
>>> Marblehead MA
>>>
>>> David Walker Photography
>>> davidwalkerphotography.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "P&M Beals" <beals at rci.rutgers.edu>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:50 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
>>>
>>>
>>>> HI.
>>>>
>>>> It's not speed so much that I care about it's getting so I feel my
> vessel
>>>> responds well in different conditions.
>>>>
>>>> I think I am making progress...I read your post, Bill, from 3/04
>>>> with
>>> Craig
>>>> Lowe's tip to help me locate it, on tacking, and tacking when
>>>> sailing
> in
>>>> stronger winds...
>>>>
>>>> I also hope to still connect with Jay Friedland for a Sept. sail on
>>>> a
>>>> good
>>>> strong windy day... without my 10 yr old daughter worried about too
> much
>>>> wind, too much heeling, and see if he has any pointers for us...
>>>>
>>>> I believe a good part of my issue has to do with adjusting my
>>>> sailing
>>>> technique to this boat...so I am not faulting the boat...or the IMF
>>>> for
>>> that
>>>> matter...I grew up sailing a vessel that would come about on a
> dime...as
>>> the
>>>> saying goes...it sailed so close to the wind that other captains on
> other
>>>> sailboats could not believe it, and yes, it was fast, very fast,
>>>> and it
>>>> could sail with only a breath of wind...a gaff rigged 36 footer...no
>>> motor.
>>>>
>>>> but hey, that was that boat, and now I am enjoying our R-22... I am
>>>> interested to just compare sailing with the traditional mainsail
>>>> vs.
> the
>>>> IMF....that is why the fact that I have an R-22 traditional
>>>> mainsail
>>>> neighbor now at my anchorage, but he happens to be kind of a
>>>> solitary
>>> soul,
>>>> and did not extend an offer to have me sail on his boat, is a little
>>>> disappointing...
>>>>
>>>> The thought has come to me, that with my boat came a slightly worn
>>>> traditional mainsail...I could buy from Stan a mast for the
>>>> traditional
>>>> main, keep the IMF...and do some sailing with the traditional
>>> mainsail...I'm
>>>> not convinced I should give up the IMF too quickly here...
>>>>
>>>> but buying a mast probably is not a cheap item either...I am more
>>>> interested in getting the motor lift to help me get our 9.9 yamaha
>>>> 4
>>> stroke
>>>> easily out of the water...
>>>>
>>>> Phyllis
>>>> Whisper
>>>> Keyport
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:03:24 -0400
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Main Sail Speed
>>>>>
>>>>> Phyllis,
>>>>>
>>>>> I still don't know if boats sail measurably faster with traditional
>>>>> sails than IMF, but I've been working with my IMF to see how fast
>>>>> it
>>>>> will sail. Generally I get most of the drive out of the head sail,
> and
>>>>> use the main sail primarily to keep the boat balanced. Recently
>>>>> I've
>>>>> been sailing with a full main sail and storm sail sized jib to try
>>>>> to
>>>>> determine the maximum speed I can get out of main sail alone. To
> date
>>>>> the best I have done is 4.2 kts sustained on main sail alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the best speed you can get out of just your main sail?
>>>>> What
> is
>>>>> the best speed people with traditional main sails can get out of
> their
>>>>> main sails alone?
>>>>>
>>>>> If the traditional people can get significantly higher boat speeds
> out
>>>>> of just their main sails, I think that would answer some of your
>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rummy, are you in this game? Rummy has a battened IMF. Does he
>>>>> get
>>>>> more boat speed out of his main sail than non-battened IMF people?
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not set my 4.2 kts. as the gold standard, just as the starting
>>>>> point. I would expect to be able to get 5 kts. under the right
>>>>> conditions, but I doubt that I could get anywhere near 6.25 under
>>>>> IMF
>>>>> main sail alone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>> P&M Beals wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello. I was just going through email and saw this note...
>>>>>> sounds great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May I ask do you have a traditional mainsail or the IMF?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bought a 1986 last summer with IMF, and I just feel that this
>>>>>> boat
>>> will
>>>>>> sail even better with a traditional mainsail...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you can give me a reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phyllis Beals
>>>>>> Whisper
>>>>>> Keyport, NJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, where on the Hudson do you sail?
>>>>>> Haverstraw Bay?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to sail out of Catskill Creek, Catskill on my father's
>>>>>> gaff
>>> rigged
>>>>>> wooden sloop...this smaller fiberglass boat is a new experience
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> me,
>>> but
>>>>>> I am trying to hang in there with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: fnuttersny at aol.com
>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 23:38:28 -0400
>>>>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] on ballanced boat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My 73 R22 is bare bones compared to most others on the list. Two
>>> batteries
>>>>>>> located under the companion way and a 9.5 evinrud in the
>>>>>>> lazzarete
>>> engine
>>>>>>> well pretty much makes up my boat. I basically set her up as a
> very
>>>>>>> comfortable day sailer. In this configuration the boat is
>>>>>>> slightly
>>> stern
>>>>>>> heavy. I recently replaced the centerboard with a custom
>>>>>>> composit
>>> airfoil
>>>>>>> shaped board with no leading and trailing(the board has the same
>>>>>>> width
>>> over
>>>>>>> its length) edge taper and 25# of bronze makingup the tip of the
>>> board -the
>>>>>>> board dropes quickly-. I have a new rolly-tasker main and a new
> 150%
>>> head
>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>> both hanked on.. I have to say that the boat performs fantastic.
> In
>>> 15 to
>>>>>>> 20
>>>>>>> mph wind and full sails there is almost no pressure on the
>>>>>>> tiller.
>>> The boat
>>>>>>> seams to dig her nose slightly down and the stern comes up. I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> set
>>> the
>>>>>>> rudder with the tiller tamer and have held my coarse for up to 45
>>>>>>> min.
>>> As
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> wind picks up I usually stand on the rail up by the mast and hang
> on
>>> to the
>>>>>>> sta
>>>>>>> ys and just look down as the boat sails herself falling of
>>>>>>> slightly
>>> then
>>>>>>> rounding up a little back an forth never more than a vew degrees
>>> either way.
>>>>>>> This is the first time I have sailed the boat with realy good
>>>>>>> sails
>>> and
>>>>>>> centerboard etc. and the difference is everything I hoped it
>>>>>>> would
>>> be. I
>>>>>>> believe this is a perfect boat for inland waters in my case the
>>>>>>> Hudson
>>>>>>> river.
>>>>>>> I had four adults on board recently in a steady 25 mph wind. We
>>>>>>> sat
>>> four in
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> row and the boat sailed at maybe 5deg. We flew across the river
>>> against a
>>>>>>> flood tide still very little pressure on the rudder and very very
>>> close to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> wind. My passengers thought I was brilliant the way I made the
> boat
>>> go
>>>>>>> exactly were I wanted it to go and in quick time . Thanks to a
> great
>>> design
>>>>>>> and a vew up grades.
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
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