[Rhodes22-list] Believe it or not radar story

Mark Metzler eyeballs at maxinter.net
Sat Feb 5 14:09:15 EST 2005


There is a similar story of an aircraft that was forced down on the ice cap,
I think in the 60's.  The Airforce was using B-29s to do polar surveillance
of the Russians (they were allegedly building a floating air base on an
iceberg).  The plane was called the Kee Bird (kee, kee keerist it's cold)
and a group of guys tried heroically to restore it to flying condition and
fly it out.  There was a TV special that documented their efforts. 
Unfortunately, after overcoming many difficulties getting the plane to fly,
it crashed and burned on it's takeoff attempt.   I have an interest in B-29
stories, as my dad was a gunner on one during the war.

Mark Metzler
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Date: 02/05/05 13:44:06
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Believe it or not radar story
 
I remember reading about a group that was successful in digging an airplane
(or several) out of the ice in Greenland.  It was several years ago.  SS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kaynor" <mark at kaynor.org>
To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 10:27 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Believe it or not radar story
 
 
>I just received this on the Tayana list and thought you lot might enjoy
>it -
> it's an interesting read.
>
> Mark Kaynor
> R22 "Raven"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce [mailto:bcp at pappalini.com]
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:56 AM
> To: Tayana Owners Discussion List
> Subject: [tayana] FW: Believe it or not radar story
>
> Okay, I know you guys are always up for a good story.
> On the Baba listserv, there has been a lot of discussion about radar.
> This story came out of that.
> Enjoy.
> --Bruce
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 12:15 AM
> Subject: Believe it or not radar story
> From: "Steven Hodge"
> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:57:47 -0800
>
> Well, heck, ok now that my arm is twisted.   I have heard this story from
> 3
> independent sources, on different continents in fact.   After WWII the
> U.S.
> was returning aircraft from U.K. and Europe.  The shortest distance is a
> great circle route and this typically took them right over the Greenland
> Ice
> Sheet.  A plane got caught in a storm over the ice sheet so they forged on
> ahead, confident in the fact that their newly-developed radar altimeter
> would keep them well away from the surface.  Sure enough the measurements
> indicated they were thousands of feet up.
>
> Little did they know at the time--no one knew--that the particular
> frequency
> band used for radar altimeters would penetrate cold ice (ice that is well
> below the freezing point and contains no liquid water), and, in fact,
> penetrates it quite well.  The reflection they were using was from the
> bottom of the ice sheet, not the top.  And the ice sheet is about 3000 m
> thick at the highest point of Greenland, so like I said they thought they
> were thousands of feet up.
>
> Well the storm was buffeting the plane around a lot, visibility was zilch,
> and they were going right into a strong headwind.  The cockpit crew was
> also
> exhausted from long hours of flying.  It eventually dawned on the cockpit
> crew that the loadmaster was standing out in front of them in the howling
> wind, giving them the "cut-throat" signal that it was ok to kill the
> engines.  The cockpit crew thought they were dreaming or hallucinating,
> but
> eventually the loadmaster was able to convince them he was for real, and
> they responded and cut the engines.
>
> The Greenland ice sheet is a huge dome, with most of the area being
> essentially flat with most of the drop off near its edges.  It turns out
> the
> pilot had unknowingly gradually flown right onto the surface of the ice
> sheet, not being able to distinguish the bumpy sastrugi surface from the
> wind buffetting.  The combination of extremely strong head wind,
> slow-flying
> aircraft, and bumpy surface had in fact slowed the aircraft to a stop and
> the crew out back had thought the pilot has simply decided to land and
> stick
> out the storm, so they were merely doing what any good crew would do at
> that
> point.
>
> None of the stories, by the way, give any indication of what happened
> after
> that.  I presume they were able to take off again once they realized their
> situation.  However, it is known that there are aircraft buried in the
> Greenland ice sheet, and, in fact, some years ago (10 or so?) there was a
> big effort by some aircraft buffs to locate them and dig them out.  I do
> not
> know the results of that.
>
> Early ice-penetrating radars were in fact nothing but slightly modified
> aircraft radar altimeters.
>
> When liquid water is present in ice, which is the case for temperate
> glaciers, the RF energy is scattered to oblivion by the cavities of liquid
> water.  In technical jargon, that is because ice and water have a
> difference
> in dielectric constant of about 80x.  It was not until the early 70's that
> we (colleagues and myself) were able to develop an alternate radar
> technique
> to allow measuring the depth of temperate ("wet") glaciers.
>
> Steve, Panda 40 Alcyon
>
>
>
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