[Rhodes22-list] Political - NOT RELATED TO SAILING!!!

Fri Feb 18 16:46:54 EST 2005

I have one small question.
If W felt so "called by God" to make such sweeping changes in Social
Security, and all the other changes he has instituted / proposed since his
coronation, why didn't he start all the reforms during his first stolen term
of office?
Certainly, it couldn't be because he was afraid of not being re-inducted
into the hall of shame.

nellwolfe

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of stan
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 3:10 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's Eyes -
notrelatedtosailing!

Brad,

Hmmm - I am not always wrong.  I note that while we speak the market has 
dropped 84 cents.

I also said that history would eventually show that Clinton had been a great

president - but now I hear you saying that's happening earlier than I 
thought

I also thought that no way could the world economy take on all the job 
retirement programs industry and governments were giving workers and that 
they would have to bail themselves out of this "math-not-adding-up" 
situation with a secret plan of programmed inflation.  But I was wrong 
again - they had more balls than I guessed and either went out of business 
with the wealthy taking theirs up front, or simply reneged on pension deals 
that were, in effect, terms where workers took less pay to get the jobs in 
return for the money they would get when they retired - really a localized 
social security but with a different name.

The bottom line is that when the conservatives get in power the name of the 
game is to take whatever can be taken, away from the poor.  And when the 
liberals get in power, to reverse that damage.  And maybe that is nature's 
law of the survival of the species.

But my basic argument remains;  and that is, when you say the poor want the 
rich to pay, both god and I would argue that it was the poor who helped the 
rich get there, so where's the beef.  Personally I never thought it fair for

W to tell the rich that the taxes they paid was their money so it should be 
given back to them and the debt incurred in doing what had to be done, 
belongs to the poor, so let them pay - or sell the debt to foreigners and 
let the poor's kids pay.  But what do I know of fairness and values - I'm 
just a leftover Neanderthal from Brooklyn.

stan.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
To: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list" 
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's Eyes - 
notrelatedtosailing!

> Stan,
>
> Be careful what you wish for.  You're right, the
> original intent was for SS to be an insurance program,
> not a substitute for responsible planning.  I'd gladly
> drop out today and forgo all future benefits but that
> won't happen.  All the polls show that the current
> recepients want "the rich" to pay the way and I fully
> expect the current $90,000 limit to be raised.  Albert
> Einstein said the eighth wonder of the world was
> compound interest.  I'd like to see my kids take
> advantage of that by putting a percentage of their
> earnings into a controlled investing program.  That is
> precisely the retirement program available to Federal
> Government workers and I don't see a rush on their
> part to give it up for the SS program.  I think if the
> BHL's would look past their hatred of W they might see
> he's hardly the fiscal conservative those of us to the
> right of Attila the Hun would like.  Like my friend
> always says, in many ways, Bill Clinton was the best
> conservative President we had in a long time. W is way
> to friendly with the pocket-book on programs like
> Medicare for me.  As to the cuts in agriculture, he's
> right on target. Sometimes things are not what they
> appear.  I do think Bush is right to take on SS now
> and not let the problem fester for future generations.
> The devil is in the details.  We won't hear the end
> of this for a long time.
>
> Brad
>
>
> --- stan <stan at rhodes22.com> wrote:
>
>> Brad,
>>
>> I do not even remember his name yet but the senate
>> minority leader sounded
>> good to me, so far (another Truman type?)
>>
>> Re SS. from a selfish point of view Rose and I are
>> getting ours so why worry
>> (but you know I need diversionary entertainment).
>> So I'll ad that we have
>> thought that everyone was looking at this program
>> myopically.  It really
>> either was meant to be, or should have been meant to
>> be, a Social Security
>> Insurance program where everyone pays into it and
>> only those who need it
>> when the time comes take the benefits..  My
>> father-in-law was modestly
>> wealthy and kept getting his SS checks which amazed
>> us kids because he
>> simply didn't need it and so would put it into the
>> stock market - he was
>> ahead of Bush's time.... .
>>
>> My guess is that while the president is out there
>> pushing his investing in
>> the market idea, the market is going to be crashing
>> and kill the vote.
>>
>> stan/ec
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com>
>> To: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail
>> list"
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Political - for Brad's
>> Eyes - not
>> relatedtosailing!
>>
>>
>> > Stan,
>> >
>> > One of the names that keeps coming up for the Dems
>> in
>> > 2008 is Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen.  Evan
>> Bayh
>> > shot himself in the foot with a lot of moderates
>> over
>> > the Condi vote.  Bredesen was Mayor of Nashville,
>> a
>> > self-made multi-millionare from the health care
>> > industry, from the Northeast originally, and I
>> voted
>> > for him as Governor and probably could as
>> President.
>> > Anyway, Bredesen just last month made massive cuts
>> in
>> > Tennessee's universal health-care program,
>> Tenn-Care,
>> > because it wasn't sustainable and was bankrupting
>> the
>> > state.  I think nearly everyone with a heart wants
>> > universal access to health care but these huge
>> social
>> > programs have so far proven difficult to
>> administer.
>> > Ever been to a hospital in China?  Change in our
>> > current system is certainly needed but massive
>> > government take-over of health care hasn't worked
>> all
>> > that well in the communist/socialist countries and
>> I
>> > don't see it working well here either.
>> >
>> > Now as to SS.  Did you read what Greenspan had to
>> say?
>> > Certainly everyone that has bought into the myth
>> of
>> > SS, like my parents, need to be protected.  But
>> for my
>> > kids, they need to be told the truth.  When the
>> > program started the ratio was 40 workers for every
>> > recipient.  Now its 3 to one.  When I start
>> drawing
>> > benefits (I'm not holding my breath on that and am
>> > planning otherwise) the ratio will be 2 to 1.
>> This is
>> > a no-brainer Stan.  The numbers don't add up.
>> When
>> > you politize the math and scare the shit out of
>> old
>> > people its irresponsible.  I can't honestly look
>> my
>> > kids in the eye and tell them that SS is a good
>> deal
>> > for them.  The handwriting is on the wall.  This
>> is
>> > not a Republican or a Democrat problem, this is
>> simple
>> > demographics.  Go to the latest McKinsey
>> newsletter
>> > and you'll see China is facing the same problem.
>> Its
>> > simple math!
>> >
>> > Brad
>> >
>>
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>
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