[Rhodes22-list] The Hydrogen Economy

[Lou Rosenberg]

>  Roger,

    Isn t there any advantage to reforming methanol and/or ethanol as 
fuel for making hydrogen ?  Is the reformation cost in energy 
prohibitive in terms of profit making for the (oil)
companies?
   regrettably, I dont comprehend the profitability & conversion 
issues as they relate to companies, rather I see the need for the 
change in our "use now, pay later"  energy policies to a more 
reasonable, approach that embraces new ideas and funds them until one 
can produce the results the world needs to move ahead.
Lou

>Ron,
>
>Thanks for the article & the encouraging words.
>
>Given all the formidable technical, logistical, safety, and political
>challenges associated with switching to a hydrogen economy, I don't see why
>anyone has any enthusiasm for any programs beyond basic research at the
>national labs and certain technical universities.  We still need to be
>discussing whether the many hurdles standing in the way of a hydrogen
>economy can be surmounted and if they should be.  Any talk of large scale
>commercial implementation at this point is way premature.  Yet, that's
>what's going on.  If we switch over to hydrogen in a big way without the
>technology in place to generate the hydrogen from water using a renewable
>power source like biomass, solar, wind, geothermal, or hydroelectric; then,
>our fossil fuel usage and net greenhouse gas emissions will only increase.
>If we start generating hydrogen by catalytically reforming any fossil fuel
>or using fossil-fuel-generated electricity to make hydrogen from water on a
>large scale; then, OPEC will be celebrating our foolishness & the planet's
>ecosystem will be worse off!
>
>Sometimes, I think we are spending big R&D money on hydrogen because it's
>sexy technology and diverts attention away from technologies like biofuels,
>solar, geothermal, wind, and nuclear that are doable right now.  A big R&D
>emphasis on hydrogen guarantees the present stutus quo for big oil & the big
>auto companies will continue indefinitely.  It allows government and
>industry to present a "good public steward" image without spending too much
>profit or taxes on a technology that will, very likely, never be practical
>on a large scale.
>
>Roger Pihlaja
>S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ronald Lipton" <rlipton at earthlink.net>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] My Interview With Broin & Associates, Inc.
>
>
>>  Roger,
>>
>>     Again, best of luck, I am glad to hear that the ice is breaking.
>>  There is another interesting hydrogen economy article at:
>>  http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-12/p39.html
>>  which discusses some of the detailed technical issues.
>>
>>  Ron
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Roger Pihlaja" <cen09402 at centurytel.net>
>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>  Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:56 AM
>>  Subject: [Rhodes22-list] My Interview With Broin & Associates, Inc.
>>
>>
>>  Hi Everyone,
>>
>>  I figured you might be curious about my telephone interview for the
>>  Technical Manager position at the Michigan Ethanol plant in Caro, MI.
>>
>>  Well, there's good news & bad news.  I was on the phone for about 75
>minutes
>>  with Jerry Baker from Broin & Associates, Inc. yesterday, which is a good
>>  long interview.  Jerry started out by apologising regarding no interview
>>  back in September, 2004.  There was apparently some sort of missed
>>  communication between the Michigan Ethanol plant in Caro, MI and the Broin
>>  corporate headquarters in Sioux Falls, SD.  The information packet about
>me
>>  never reached the decision making managers at the corporate headquarters.
>>  So, it would appear my strategies to send a thank you letter to the hiring
>>  manager back in October, 2004 as well as send a packet directly to Sioux
>>  Falls, SD this time around were correct.  I was also able to find out the
>>  person they hired back in September, 2004 never showed up.  The Technical
>  > Manager position at the Caro, MI plant has been vacant all this time!
>Broin
>>  sounds like a wonderful company to work for.  To date, they've engineered
>>  and built 20 corn-to-ethanol plants and they operate 14 of these plants.
>>  Two more of their ethanol plants will start-up and come on-line in 2005
>and
>>  they will start construction of three more this year.  So, business is
>>  booming for them!  Broin is #2 in their industry, behind Archer Daniels
>>  Midland.
>>
>>  We discussed my biowaste to energy recovery ideas and my Bio-Energy Corp.
>>  business plan.  Jerry probed me with some technical questions designed to
>>  determine my in-depth knowledge of the dry milling route for the
>>  corn-to-ethanol process.  I think I handled those pretty well.  I asked
>him
>>  if Broin was disappointed that the energy bill didn't make it thru
>congress
>>  last fall.  He said Broin was sort of glad it hadn't passed despite all
>the
>>  subsidies in it for corn-to-ethanol.  It seems Broin ethanol plants are
>>  already profitable without the federal subsidies.  The subsidies would
>just
>>  keep a lot of inefficient competitors in the game!
>>
>>  Two issues came up that didn't go as well as I would have liked.  For the
>>  Technical Manager position in Caro, MI; Broin seemed to be looking for
>>  someone with experience in running and troubleshooting industrial scale
>>  fermentation reactors.  The Dow Chemical Co. doesn't run any fermentation
>>  type chemical processes.  At Michigan Tech University, I took a class in
>>  industrial microbiology, which discussed the theory & practice of these
>>  types of processes.  I pointed out my formal training; but, I had to admit
>>  I've never actually run a commercial scale fermentation process.  I asked
>>  if, as Technical Manager at the Caro plant, would I be able to call on my
>>  counterparts in the other 14 ethanol plants that Broin operates as well as
>>  the central engineering dept. at the corporate headquarters for
>>  troubleshooting assistance with the fermentation section of the process?
>Of
>>  course, those resources would be available to me.  Aren't there also some
>>  lead operators with years of experience at the Caro plant?  I told Jerry
>>  that with all the resources available to back me up and my own expertise
>in
>>  process design and troubleshooting, I thought I could come up to speed on
>>  the fermentation reactors pretty quickly.  Other than the fermentation
>>  reactors, I've had direct experience with all the other unit operations in
>>  the plant.
>>
>>  The other issue that came up was my relative lack of management
>experience,
>>  despite my long career.  Just as at MRI in Kansas City, MO, I tried to use
>>  my experience as Chief Engineer at the ceramics market development plant
>in
>>  Russellville, AR as well as my Boy Scout Wood Badge management training.
>>  The experience in Russellville was from 1987-1990, which is not very
>recent.
>>  Jerry didn't seem to react very favorably to the Wood Badge management
>>  course either.  I e-mailed him some supplemental information on the Wood
>>  Badge program, which may help.  I used the same strategy at MRI when the
>>  issue of my management expertise came up & it seemed to work much better
>>  there.  I don't know, it's much easier to judge reactions and body
>language
>>  when you're sitting across a desk from the interviewer vs. over the phone.
>>
>>  Jerry also told me they were looking to hire some folks for their central
>>  engineering group in Sioux Falls, SD.  He told me my background made me
>>  sound like a much better fit for their central engineering group.  But,
>the
>>  hiring decision hasn't been made on those positions yet.  Jerry said he'd
>be
>>  contacting the rest of the candidates for the Technical Manager position
>in
>>  Caro, MI this week.  The next steps would be face to face interviews in
>>  Sioux Falls, SD and Caro, MI.  I should know one way or the other by next
>>  week.  Naturally, Deb is rooting for the position in Caro, MI and dislikes
>>  the thought of a move to Sioux Falls, SD even worse than Kansas City, MO.
>>  But, stay tuned!
>>
>>  FYI, for those of you that follow this subject, the January, 2005 issue of
>  > Popular Science magazine has an interesting article on the hydrogen
>economy.
>>
>>  Roger Pihlaja
>>  S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
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