[Rhodes22-list] Trailer Launching and Retrieving

Peter Thorn pthorn at nc.rr.com
Sat Jan 15 22:25:32 EST 2005 

Bryan, Rik, Roger, Mary Lou et al,

Let me through another penny in the pot.   This suggestion actually comes indirectly from Stan our boat maker.

A while ago, Stan told me about trying to recover an R22 at a boat show someplace after the tide went out -- for some reason the water was very low on the ramps.  He covered the bunks with polyethylene plastic, backed in as far as possible, but apparently not as far as desired, motored up some "way" and got the R22 partly on the trailer.  Then, with the friction of the bunk carpet reduced by the slippery polyethylene plastic on them, winched up the rest of the way.  First reducing the friction on the bunks and then cranking with a "big enough" winch does work!  I think it is also important to lubricate the bunks with water, but that's not a problem when recovering a boat.

Tie-Down Engineering bunk glide-ons http://www.overtons.com/modperl/overtons/detail/pdetail2.cgi?r=detail_view&item_num=27606 are basically just slippery plastic 2x6 bunk covers that reduce friction.  I've used them on my Starwind 19 with great success (see attachment) and have purchased some for my R22 trailer (but haven't installed them yet).  They make winching the boat forward on the trailer much, much easier.  If you use the Mary Lou/Fred method with these slippery bunk covers, I think getting the boat as forward as you desire would be a lot easier.

Good luck on your trip to Florida!

PT  


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mary Lou Troy" <mltroy at verizon.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Launching and Retrieving


> Bryan,
> Thought I would add my 1.5 cents to the mix. I do think how you retrieve is 
> very much dependant on your particular trailer and the ramp in question. I 
> can't remember if you said you saw the discussion in the FAQ or not but in 
> case anyone is wondering it's here:
> http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/recovery.html
> and here:
> http://www.geocities.com/blew_skies/tip001.html
> 
> Much of the FAQ repeats what has been said on the list but there might be 
> something additional in there.
> 
> The FAQ makes mention of the MaryLou/Fred method but doesn't actually quote 
> my original paragraph on the subject so I've provided it here:
> "Here is what works for us at our ramp. It involves someone getting wet. We 
> don't use the tongue extension. We submerge the trailer until forward ends 
> of the bunks are just barely above the water. (Getting the trailer too deep 
> can cause other problems.) We position the bow stop on the trailer all the 
> way forward. We then pull and winch the boat as far forward as she will go. 
> Usually this is right up to the bow stop - the boat then wants to settle 
> aft as we pull her out. We pull the boat out a little bit at a time. As the 
> boat comes out of the water the bow position changes and slack develops in 
> the winch strap. The first 2-3 pulls are a foot or less and we tighten up 
> on the winch strap each time. Usually by this time the weight of the boat 
> is fully on the bunks and we can pull her the rest of the way out without 
> her slipping back further."
> 
> We generally only launch and retrieve the boat once a year so we don't 
> practice very much anymore. We have never tried motoring the boat on the 
> trailer although Stan has always claimed that is the best method. If you 
> came in with a bit of momentum, it would allow you to leave the bunks 
> further out of the water and supporting more of the weight of the boat. 
> With the winch strap tight the boat might not slip back much at all. I 
> suspect it might still depend on the steepness of the ramp.
> 
> In any event, good luck on your trip to Florida and have a great cruise!.
> 
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22 Fretless
> Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 11:14 AM 1/15/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> >Roger and Rik,
> >
> >This is exactly the issue.  When I winch the boat up to the V bow stop 
> >(for steep ramps) the bow eyelet is below the V bow stop and the cable is 
> >digging into the rubber stop.  I can not winch it any further.    The 
> >winch that I have is not adjustable but your other ideas are 
> >interesting.  I have fender aprons that may prevent larger tires.
> >
> >For my trip to Florida which is coming up at the end of this month I will 
> >use the technique of loading the V birth area with my heavy gear.
> >
> >I would love to be able to leave the motor on the motor mount during 
> >trailering since that is the most laborsome part of setting up the boat.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico at earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Jan 15, 2005 9:12 AM
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Launching and Retrieving
> >
> >Bryan & Roger,
> >
> >I have been here and done most of this, with several different trailers
> >(both Triad aand Trailmaster) and R22s.
> >
> >The problem comes from the height of the winch and bow stop being too
> >high, when trying to load on the ramp. The bow eye comes up about 8
> >inches to a foot below the bow stop when you winch up. Once up close to
> >the bow stop, the winch cable or strap is running over the top of and
> >turning around and down through the V of the bow stop. This causes quite
> >a bind. If you try to raise the bow eye up to come over the bow stop,
> >between the weight of the boat and the binding on the stop, you will
> >fold your 700 lb winch up like a cheap suit. Don't ask me how I know this.
> >
> >I know that Roger's "system" works for him, but that is Roger's boat
> >going on Roger's trailer. I would like to see his trailer and the
> >Trailmaster/Triad trailers side by side, because I'm quite sure that
> >something is different. Well as it may work for you Roger, I have tried
> >your method and had no luck getting the boat to end up far enough ahead
> >when I'm done.
> >
> >There are several simple things you could do to make loading easier. 1.
> >Replace your solid V bow stop with a V Roller. This would help with the
> >strap binding as the boat comes up close to the stop and allow you to
> >raise the bow eye that six inches or so that is needed. 2. Get an
> >adustable height hitch head for your tow vehicle. You can set this in
> >the lowest position when you are retrieving and it will help to get the
> >trailer a bit more level on the ramp. This will help the boat have less
> >angle to rock back 3. This is related to #2. Put taller wheels and tires
> >on your trailer. This will raise the back of the trailer and also lessen
> >the angle difference between the boat and trailer when you are trying to
> >load. As an added benefit, you may be able to get a higher weight rating
> >on your new larger wheels and tires. I went to a 16 inch wheel and tire.
> >
> >After doing #s 2 and 3, I found that I had no trouble anymore, getting
> >my boat far enough ahead and having plenty of tongue weight. I would
> >have added the bow stop roller If I hadn't sold the boat.
> >
> >BTW: On the advice to move the bow stop ahead. I got the same advice. My
> >bow stop was already as far ahead as it could go.
> >
> >Rik
> >
> >Roger Pihlaja wrote:
> >
> > >Bryan,
> > >
> > >As I am reading the rest of the responses to your question, I find myself
> > >asking another question.  Do you have a problem winching the boat up onto
> > >the trailer until the bow is in contact with the V-shaped rubber bow stop on
> > >the trailer?  After all, that's what the trailer's winch and the bow towing
> > >eye are for.  GBI knew there would be some big forces involved in recovery
> > >onto the trailer.  Therefore, all the pieces/parts are sized and/or
> > >reinforced accordingly.  While you could certainly rig up something to apply
> > >similar forces evenly (hopefully!?!) to the transom; but, why would you want
> > >to?  Please explain how pulling from the stern of the boat will get the boat
> > >further up onto the trailer than the trailer's winch can?
> > >
> > >If you are having a problem with pulling the bow of your boat far enough
> > >forward onto the trailer that the bow is in contact with the V-shaped stop
> > >on the trailer; then I have two suggestions:
> > >
> > >1. You may need to back your trailer further into the water.  For a
> > >recovery, we back Dynamic Equilibrium's trailer into the water until the
> > >bunks are submerged except for about 2 feet in the front.  We use those
> > >exposed bunks as the target to aim the boat at while approaching the
> > >trailer.  Basically, we try to center the bow between the two exposed ends
> > >of the bunks.  The trailer tongue extension is usually required to get the
> > >trailer sufficiently deep into the water at most launch ramps.
> > >
> > >2.  One reason why I added the backup strap for the trailer's winch is that
> > >the wraps of cable on the winch were often not tightly packed.  Under the
> > >stress of driving out of the water & up the launch ramp, sometimes the boat
> > >would shift backwards on the trailer by pulling some of this "slack" out of
> > >the wraps of cable on the winch drum.  The backup strap absolutely
> > >eliminates this issue.  Simon says, "Stay put boat!"
> > >
> > >Once the bow of your boat is in contact with the V-shaped bow stop on the
> > >trailer and held there, the winch & trailer have done their job.  The boat
> > >needs to be positioned sufficiently far forward on the trailer that the
> > >tongue weight is 10-15% of the gross weight of the boat + trailer + gear.
> > >Insufficient tongue weight tends to causes problems with high speed yaw
> > >instability on the road.  The position of the vertical strut that the
> > >trailer's winch & V-shaped bow stop are mounted on is adjustable on my
> > >trailer.  By loosening 4 nuts, I can slide the strut fore and aft on the
> > >trailer tongue.  When I upgraded my outboard from a 2-cycle 6 hp Evinrude to
> > >a 4-cycle Honda 8 hp, the additional weight of the new outboard at the stern
> > >of the boat affected my trailer's tongue weight.  I had to move the vertical
> > >strut forward about 3 inches to compensate for the additional weight in the
> > >stern.  Small fore/aft position changes will probably not require any
> > >adjustments in the trailer bunks.  But, a big fore/aft position change might
> > >also require the bunks to be adjusted to match the curvature of the hull in
> > >the new position.
> > >
> > >Basically, if the bow of your boat is in contact with the V-shaped bow stop
> > >on the trailer; then, you need to get it up there as discussed above.  If
> > >the bow of your boat is up against the V-shaped bow stop on the trailer &
> > >you still have problems with high speed yaw instability; then, you have two
> > >choices:
> > >
> > >1. You can slide the vertical strut forward as I described on my trailer.
> > >Just move the vertical strut a few inches forward, winch the boat up to the
> > >new position, and go test to determine if your high speed yaw instability
> > >has improved.  Keep moving the strut forward on the trailer tongue a few
> > >inches at a time until the high speed sway goes away.  If the fore/aft
> > >position of the vertical strut is not adjustable on your trailer; then, you
> > >should consider grinding off the welds and rewelding the strut in a new
> > >position.  If this is your situation; then, please contact me off-line at
> > >cen09402 at centurytel.net and I will take you thru a procedure to determine
> > >how much to move the strut forward.
> > >
> > >2. For trailering, you can shift weight from the stern of the boat forward.
> > >Some owners accomplish this weight shift by removing their outboards and
> > >stowing them in the cabin, on the tongue, or even in the tow vehicle.   You
> > >can also remove all the gear from the lazarette compartment &/or cockpit and
> > >stow it up in the V-berth.  Filling up the water tank will also add tongue
> > >weight.  Shifting all this gear around will add to your setup and takedown
> > >time.  I find this strategy to be an inelegant solution and a royal PITA.
> > >But, it will work and some owners do it every time they trailer their boats.
> > >
> > >Good luck!
> > >
> > >Roger Pihlaja
> > >S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico at earthlink.net>
> > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 10:28 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Trailer Launching and Retrieving
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Bryan,
> > >>
> > >>We ( Rod Ellner and I) have actually done the "winch the trailer up to
> > >>the boat thing". You don't pull the boat down to the trailer, you pull
> > >>the trailer up to the boat. We used a pair of 1/2 braided dock lines for
> > >>the task. Tie the lines to the trailer right below the winches and pass
> > >>the lines up to the winch on each side. Back the boat back into the
> > >>water, deep. You will need room for the front of the bunks to raise up.
> > >>Then just raise the trailer up to the boat raising each winch a little
> > >>at a time. The boat will hold the trailer up easily. when you have it
> > >>up, winch the bow ahead that last foot and you should be good. You will
> > >>need to have some one holding the boat and trailer in place, because it
> > >>will be free to float off to one side or the other once the trailer
> > >>wheels are off the ramp. You don't want to have to do this every time.
> > >>Is your vehicle hitch height set so the trailer is level, or better yet,
> > >>slanting toward the front just a bit when parked on level ground??
> > >>
> > >>Rik
> > >>
> > >>Steve Alm wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Bryan,
> > >>>
> > >>>I understand your problem well.  Quite a few of us have had the same
> > >>>difficulty getting the boat far enough forward on the trailer.  In order
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >to
> > >
> > >
> > >>>get sufficient tongue weight, I had to remove the outboard and lash it on
> > >>>the tongue, remove the rudder assembly and stow it forward along with any
> > >>>other gear that could be moved forward.  In other words a major pain in
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >
> > >>>butt!  I solved the problem by adding a second axle to the trailer.  I
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >know,
> > >
> > >
> > >>>I know - pretty drastic and not inexpensive, but it totally fixed the
> > >>>problem.
> > >>>
> > >>>Before adding the second axle, it didn't seem to matter how steep the
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >ramp
> > >
> > >
> > >>>was.  The boat came out of the water in about the same place on the
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >trailer
> > >
> > >
> > >>>no matter what.  I kinda doubt your idea to float the trailer will help,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >but
> > >
> > >
> > >>>it's worth a try.  Be sure to use two lines - port and starboard - so the
> > >>>trailer and/or boat doesn't tilt to one side.  Don't use nylon line
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >because
> > >
> > >
> > >>>it will stretch too much.  Maybe chains would be best.  Put a plug in the
> > >>>aft cockpit drain because the extra weight will probably force water back
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >up
> > >
> > >
> > >>>the drain hole decreasing buoyancy.  If you have an adjustable bow stop
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >on
> > >
> > >
> > >>>the trailer, be sure it's all the way forward.  You may have to back in
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >and
> > >
> > >
> > >>>out several times tightening the winch each time.  Proceed SLOWLY and
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >watch
> > >
> > >
> > >>>for anything to go wrong.  Should one of the lines/chains let go, you'd
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >have
> > >
> > >
> > >>>a much bigger problem!  I'm talking myself out of this - it sounds too
> > >>>scary.
> > >>>
> > >>>Good luck and let us know if/when you try it.
> > >>>
> > >>>Slim
> > >>>
> > >>>On 1/14/05 12:08 PM, "Bryan Childs" <bchilds1 at peoplepc.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>First, thanks for all the help in determining the surface coating for my
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >dingy
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>floor boards.  I am adding the West resin. The job is almost done.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Another question relating to launching the Rhodes, actually retrieving
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >it.  I
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>have a single axle trailer and it is very important to get the boat as
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >forward
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>on the trailer as possible.  For ramps with a gentle slope it is not
> > >>>>difficult, but for steep sloop ramps it is near impossible.  When the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >boat is
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>pulled out it rotates from it's steep position to a position that is to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >far
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>back.  I thought of a solution and would like to run it by the group.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Pull the boat out.  For a steep sloop ramp the boat will be too far
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >rearward.
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>Then tie the stern of the boat to the rear of the trailer and put it
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >back in
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>the water.  I would only need to go back to take some of the load off
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>trailer.  I should be able to move the boat forward on the trailer.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >Then when
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>it comes out it will not rotate back.  Has anyone tied this?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>________________________________________
> > >>>>PeoplePC Online
> > >>>>A better way to Internet
> > >>>>http://www.peoplepc.com
> > >>>>__________________________________________________
> > >>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>__________________________________________________
> > >>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>__________________________________________________
> > >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >________________________________________
> >PeoplePC Online
> >A better way to Internet
> >http://www.peoplepc.com
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
-------------- next part --------------
Name: Kate 304 keel funnel.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 921273 bytes Desc: not available
Url: http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200501/15/Kate304keelfunnel.jpg

More information about the Rhodes22-list mailing list