[Rhodes22-list] Curtis and the big boat

Sun Jul 17 12:03:31 EDT 2005

Curtis:

     The idea behind this email list is post replies to everybody, that is
the whole list.  There are over 200 subscribers to this thing.  Only a small
percentage routinely makes post.  

     When you put everything out there, including dirty laundry, you never
know what might happen.  On the other hand, for that matter who knows who
might reply?  It could be a guy just down the street with just the boat you
are looking for.

     If you are looking for a boat with the amenities of 30 footer, you are
looking at the wrong boat.  Have you read Mary Lou's chapter in the book,
"Sailing Small?"  If you want to take two other couples overnight, the
Rhodes 22 is just too small.  

     However, if you want a fun and easy boat to sail for a day, then you
cannot beat it.  It is very safe and very tolerant of mistakes.  With its
nine stays, it has gotten back to dock after any number of strange
occurrences.(search archives)

     Older boats generally do not have the IMF, and some new boats do not.
Racers and those that go to conditions that are more difficult still use
standard sails.

     However, if you go back and read Bill Effros's posts about the IMF and
the furling foresail, the boat is uniquely adjustable to conditions.  You
can sail Rummy's style with the rail in the water.  You can adjust the sails
to sail flat, which is said to be the fastest.  

     Thin water, with a swing centerboard, you get this thump.  You bring up
the board and find deeper water.  

     The only boats that I have recently seen posted worthy of a second look
would be Raz's and the one from Wisconsin.  I am limiting to IMF.  An
advantage of a recycled from Stan is new or good running rigging.
Notwithstanding Rummy's comment about recently replacing old lines, most
lines will deteriorate from use and UV within a few years.  I have replaced
many of the thinner lines on my boat.  Furthermore, with a recycle if you
use the boat for a while and find something needing replacement, just
contact the Maestro.

     As for the project boats, they take months and sometimes years to get
back in good order.  They also take a lot of boat knowledge and tools.  We
have not heard from Lou lately.  Hello Lou. 

Ed K

Greenville, SC, USA

Addendum for Curtis:  http://users2.ev1.net/~barr/

-----Original Message-----
From: curtisleister at comcast.net [mailto:curtisleister at comcast.net] 
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 9:38 PM
To: ed kroposki
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x and R22

    Hi Peter and Ed

 This is Curtis

 I did not buy that Hunter

  E-Bay is ez to get excited on, did you see it, mint cond. loaded starting
at 8K to 8.1 with E-Bay, if you can go see it in person you have a much
better chance.

At 10K it would have been a great toy for right now, today.Wednesday is my
off day and I planned to go there, someone beat me to it because it was
pulled that day. 

   I'm home after a day of hunting from Tuckerton to Forked River to
Riverside.I'm boated out.

   Over the years I've watched, as Hunter always seemed to change
models(25-26-25.5 etc.) If it's so good this year why change it next.

When I first saw Macs.,  which I saw alot of today, no boat can be a good
power boat and a good sail boat even fast and comfortable is an oximoron.

 But I did picture myself racing Jay around the island,going downwind with
spin

and no water in the ballast cutting across the shoals(you can't go turtle in
two feet of water)then taking on ballast lowering the keel  through the
inlet, down the ocean side.

  Jay was great, he showed us a R-22 in Beachhaven.And Donna wants that
boat.

We share a house with two other families, and when she got back her
enthuasim, you would of thought she sailed the boat already. I even took the
two dads to show them. So I plan to schedule a criuse on a Catalina 30 thru
Barnegat sailing for three couples to turn them on, and go Annapolis in
Oct.(A great weekend without kids.)

   Donna and I chartered a Catalina 30 in the 80's for a week. With our
Hobie buddies we sailed out the inlet to the ocean. You know how everyone
waves at other boats, well some guy fishing wave at us and said "who are
you"? I waved backed and said "who are you"? He responds "I'm the owner of
that boat and your not allowed out here!" He took off and we turned around
and went back in, ran aground good.But being Hobies  and knowing the waters
it was no problem getting off and pulling and pushing and taking the main
haylard to lean the boat over to get it out.We got kicked off mid-week.

I'm boatless. I'll keep my mutton buttoned,and just observe and learn from
you guys and girls.I'll mail a check to Stan and follow the progam.

thanks curtisleister at comcast.net 

P.S. Be careful what you say about comcast,some day we will all be writing
checks to comcast for cable and internet.

Double P.S. Is that R-22 at Samalot marina on the Hudson worth me looking
at? 

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> Peter: 
> Watch the top line, the 'To' line. Sometimes it is caused by the 
> sender in the first place. I get both in direct and the list in my reply 
> to, depending on who sent it in the first place. I get both on yours, but 
> not on most. 
> All this discussion for a contrarian who only occasionally 
> acknowledges this list. I guess Curtis is not going to tell us if he
bought 
> that Hunter (water ballast). There are other brands out there that use
water 
> ballast. 
> 
> Ed K 
> Greenville, SC, USA 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org 
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Peter Thorn 
> Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 6:20 PM 
> To: Rhodes 22 List Members 
> Subject: Fw: [Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x ! and R22 
> 
> I really intended to share this with the list. When I "Reply" with
Outlook, 
> it somehow bypasses the list if I'm not careful. Any ideas? 
> 
> PT 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Thorn" 
> To: "Bill Effros" 
> Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 6:14 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x and R22 
> 
> 
> Bill, 
> 
> To be sure we'd have a good one, I brought one with me from NC: a 
> small/medium Danforth with 20' of 1/4" chain and 150' 3/8" nylon. That 
> anchor held just fine. 
> 
> Prior to setting out and at my urging, Tom spent over $500 on basic 
> running 
> rigging upgrades at West Marine. His 26x is three years old. He bought 
> it new, so all the lines and rigging were Roger M's original junk. We 
> joked about the incredibly low quality running rigging Ro! ger puts on his

> boats throughout our trip. The few lines we d idn't replace would kink or 
> the core would push through in places, making them function very poorly. 
> Imagine a mainsheet with the core poking out 3/4" getting hung on a
sheave. 
> When poor quality effects function, I think safety is effected too. 
> 
> The mooring cleats are undersized and not installed with any backing. I 
> think there are two 4 or 5" cleats at the bow and two at the stern. 
> They're really too small for the purpose. I've read that most Mac owners 
> upgrade quite a bit and many consider the boat delivered from the factory
to 
> be a "kit", so they expect to spend more upfitting later. 
> 
> I suppose it's possible your new anchorage neighbor lost his bow cleats in

> a blow. Suggest you don't moor downwind of him and watch the weather 
> closely. 
> I am surprised to read it's the first one in Greenwich. Last year, we 
> anchored in Oyster Bay near the promin! ent waterside home of the NY 
> Cablevision chairman/ceo and later fueled at the Sewanica (sp?) Corinthian

> YC fuel doc, so I know they've seen at least one of them up there. 
> 
> The place we put in the Upper Chesapeake late last month, Casa Rio in Mayo

> , MD has about 50 Macs in drysail mode on the hard. These boats seem to be

> the model Ts of recreational motor/sailing. They all look alike and are 
> featured and priced to attract a broad following. It's unfortunate they 
> don't sail a lot better. 
> 
> The Mac 26 predecessor to the 26x was a much better sailboat. I almost 
> bought one before I started thinking about the R22. Too bad they 
> discontinued it, but I very glad now to have Raven. 
> 
> My new neighbors moved in about a month ago and have a Mac26M (the new one

> with dagger board). They sold a 30' S2 in FL, moved to Chapel Hill and 
> bought the new Mac. ! It looks a little better than the 26x, but I really 
> don't kno w much about it. They took it to the Pamilco and Neuse for 3 
> weeks. I hope they make it back OK. 
> 
> PT 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bill Effros" 
> To: "Peter Thorn" 
> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 5:20 PM 
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Mac 26x and R22 
> 
> 
> Peter, 
> 
> I gather your anchor set-up held outside Clinton. How was it 
> configured? The 26x next to me last night did not seem to have a bow 
> cleat. 
> 
> Bill Effros 
> 
> Peter Thorn wrote: 
> 
> Bill, Ed, Rob and Lurkers, 
> 
> Having circumnavigated Long Island, except the blue water part, in a 
> 26x, I can say Richard Smith's comments about them are right on the money.

> They really don! 't either sail or motor that well. The steering is very
hard 
> too. 
> But, IMHO, that's not the worst part. 
> 
> About a year ago Cousin Tom and I sailed in his 26x up through Big and 
> Little Pequot, passed Plum Island, entered LIS and then traveled a 30 
> km long port tack in SW winds until arriving in Clinton, CT after dark. 
> It was calm and we were whooped, so, as cruising novices, we made the 
> biggest mistake of our trip then. Instead of traveling the last 300 yards 
> in the dark into an unknown (to us) protected anchorage, we set the hook 
> right there in open water. Tom took the queen bed under the cockpit and I 
> the vee birth. 
> 
> Now a 26x, even with the tanks full, is a light boat for its size. 
> Think ping pong ball. About 3 am the winds changed from calm to storm 
> approaching from the east. Waves 2-3' started bouncing our 26x ping pong 
> ball around! like Gin in a martini shaker. I believe the vee birth took
most 
& gt; of the activity. By 4 am I was truly getting green around the gills,
so I 
> woke Tom and discussed getting underway to take advantage of the winds
from 
> the east. 
> We started to get ready,but by 4:30 it was dry heaves over the side 
> For me. My first seasick experience! 
> 
> This year I've sailed Raven enough to fully appreciate what a wonderful 
> 22' foot sailboat Stan and Phil Rhodes have created. Raven has a fine 
> enough entry to avoid the pounding and smacking the 26x flat bottomed ping

> pong ball gives it's riders in rough conditions. 
> 
> On paper, the 26x is supposed to be faster than the R22 under sail. In 
> reality that is not my experience. Under all conditions except 
> motoring, Tom could not keep up with us in Raven in the upper Chesapeake 
> last week. The 26x has tighter headsail sheeting angles, but with the flat

> bottom it must be footed to keep the ! flow going over the high lift
rudders 
> and cb, or in light air they stall and leeway results. Raven makes much 
> better VMG to windward. We would start sailing together, but as each day 
> progressed the result would always be the same: when our lead became
large, 
> the 26x would convert to "motor boat mode" and run the 50hp Suzuki to
catch 
> up at the end of the day. We would arrive first, and we would have sailed 
> the entire distance. Much better quality of experience, wouldn't you say? 
> 
> In fairness, the 26x was a great boat to travel around Long Island in 7 
> days. If the wind or our bad judgment let us down, the 50 hp Suzuki 
> would bail us out. While passing down the East River and by the battery it

> was nice to be able to throttle away from any threats. Any small boat is 
> no match for those ferries and tugs, so it was nice to be able to get out 
> of the way. 
> 
&! gt; But anyone interested in pure sailing should think twice before bu
ying 
> A 26x. There is just no comparison to our lovely R22. If you believe 
> That a motorboat will get you there faster, but that in a sailboat "you're

> Already there", then a high quality sailing experience easily trumps the 
> Flexability advantages of the 26x hybrid boat. The light responsive helm 
> and dinghy-like sailing characteristics of the Rhodes are very worth the 
> Price of the boat. 
> 
> PT 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ed kroposki" 
> To: "'The Rhodes 22 mail list'" 
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 7:29 AM 
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Bill's reply on Mac 26 and Hunter Sailboats! 
> 
> 
> Bill Said: 
> 
> "Actually, I owned a Mac 26 water ballast ... is fun, although it is 
> true that failing to put any water into the tank gives the word 
> "! tender" a whole new meaning...it's hairy. A cheap thrill ...1/2 filling

> the ballast tank is also very interesting." 
> 
> Bill: 
> So if you liked water ballast so much, why don't you still have a 
> water ballast boat, like the Mac or Hunter? Give the two guys looking 
> at the Hunter and the Mac your insights. 
> Are there any safety or boat integrity issues specific to water 
> ballast? You are the one who has had both type boats. What are your 
> experienced insights? 
> 
> Ed K 
> Greenville, SC, USA 
> Addendum: "This ... is like an Enron budget -- smoke the numbers, 
> cook the books, hide the truth and hope no one finds out." Senator John 
> Kerry 
> 
> 