[Rhodes22-list] Anchor Chain Question

[Steve]

Wally
Are you really that stupid????????  YOu sail on a
river.  If anyone need chain on their anchor; you do. 
But be stupid.  When it come to sailing, nothing I
have read that you have wrote; shows me that you know
anything; especilly if you don't even know that you
need chain on your anchor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve



--- Wally Buck <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Steve,
> 
> You sound like a fair weather motor sailor. In the
> conditions you described 
> your poor seamenship shows. When I am out in 20 plus
> my sails are up. In 20 
> my sailboat is easier to sail than motor. Perhaps
> you should give it a try? 
> Testings ones skill is a good thing. Next time try
> to work up the nerve to 
> hoist a sail when the wind kicks up. After all we
> own sailboats.
> 
> Wally
> 
> >From: Steve <rhodes2282 at yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Anchor Chain Question
> >Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 05:54:22 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >If you are anchoring in clam weather, then you can
> get
> >away with the below or even a gallon jug filled
> with
> >concrete:-)
> >
> >However, here is something you all are not
> factoring
> >in.  Your motor quits, wind is 15 to 20 & your
> drifing
> >to shore.  You decide to depold your
> Danforth/anchor
> >to keep you off the shore.  Guess what, the
> danforth
> >just sail on top of the water & your boat in now on
> >the rocks!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >You put chain on your anchor (if you want to Ignore
> >all the other very good reasons) to get it to sink.
> >Unless you are just a fair weather sailor!!!!
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Mary Lou,
> > >
> > > I'm sure I've heard the same things about
> anchoring
> > > that you've heard,
> > > but when I started to actually check them out, a
> lot
> > > of those things
> > > didn't make sense, and many of them seem
> > > contradictory.
> > >
> > > Let's start with John's explanation, which is
> well
> > > written, and pretty
> > > typical.  In order to make his examples work,
> he's
> > > got to anchor in 30
> > > feet of water.  I have never anchored in 30 feet
> of
> > > water, nor have I
> > > ever paid out 200 feet of rode.  (When I first
> read
> > > explanations of
> > > anchoring like this I bought 300 feet of line on
> a
> > > single anchor rode,
> > > but most of it has never been in the water.)
> > >
> > > In practice, I would be happy if I could anchor
> in
> > > 10 feet of water, pay
> > > out 70 feet of rode, + my 22 ft. boat = 92 feet
> x 2
> > > = 184 feet...I would
> > > need a circle greater than 184 feet in diameter
> with
> > > no other boats
> > > encroaching to be sure we would not foul each
> > > other's rode or bump in
> > > the night.  (John's circle would be larger than
> a
> > > football field.)  I've
> > > never been in a busy anchorage where boats
> stayed a
> > > football field away
> > > from each other.
> > >
> > > In fact, in most busy anchorages you are lucky
> to
> > > get a 100 foot
> > > circle.  22 feet of boat, 28 feet of rode, 7
> foot
> > > depth, 4:1 scope.  If
> > > this is the way you are anchoring, then your 16
> feet
> > > of chain represents
> > > more than 50% of the rode--however it weighs
> only
> > > around 10 lbs, and
> > > would not be sufficient to create a catenary
> shape
> > > between your bow and
> > > the anchor.  If you actually anchor in 30 feet
> of
> > > water, your 16 feet of
> > > chain would still weigh only 10 pounds, and
> could
> > > still not create a
> > > catenary between your bow and anchor.
> > >
> > > When I look around my harbor at hundreds of
> anchored
> > > boats what I see
> > > are very short scopes, no catenary shape, a
> straight
> > > line between the
> > > anchor and the bow, no chain on the bottom,
> constant
> > > pressure on the
> > > flukes of the anchors, and very little drifting.
> > >
> > > When I looked in the West catalog to find
> drawings
> > > of anchor lines with
> > > chain on the bottom I was surprised to see that
> they
> > > are no longer
> > > drawing anchor lines this way (see p. 725) --
> it's a
> > > straight line from
> > > the anchor to the bow.
> > >
> > > I think everyone should anchor in a manner that
> > > allows them to sleep in
> > > the night, but I find it interesting that so
> much of
> > > what we read turns
> > > out to be wrong in practice.  As Wally has
> > > mentioned, the biggest
> > > benefit of the all line rode is that it comes up
> > > clean.  It is much
> > > easier to handle and store, and it is light
> enough
> > > so that even a child
> > > can haul it on board.
> > >
> > > Anchoring on coral is a frowned upon practice in
> > > most places that still
> > > have coral.   Danforth anchors are the wrong
> type to
> > > use on rocky
> > > bottoms.  Again, like Wally, I have never seen
> > > abrasion on my all line
> > > rode.  I don't think line abrasion is a valid
> reason
> > > to use chain.  I
> > > don't think either the chain or the line spends
> much
> > > time on the bottom.
> > >
> > > As far as I can see, the real reason people use
> > > chain is that it is
> > > easier for the windlasses to pull up chain. 
> Since a
> > > lot of these boats
> > > have really heavy anchors--too heavy even for
> > > Roger--they need something
> > > to pull them up, and they need chain so the
> windlass
> > > can do its job.
> > >
> > > I was surprised to find on our boats that all
> line
> > > rodes worked just as
> > > well as chain/rode combinations.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The catenary concept
> > >
> > > Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > > I've always heard that the primary function of
> > > chain is to keep the
> > > > pull on the anchor low, to increase the
> catenary
> > > and to reduce shock
> > > > loads in all but the most extreme conditions
> (when
> > > a snubber is needed
> > > > as well). There's a better explanation of this
> > > than mine at
> > > >
> http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Articles/anchor.htm
> > > >
> > > > Our Danforth holds better with 16 ft. of chain
> > > than it did with 8 ft.
> > > > of chain because the extra weight of the chain
> is
> > > keeping the
> > > > direction of pull on the shank low. In many
> places
> > > we anchor I now use
> > > > less scope because we are much closer to the
> > > needing the scope
> > > > required for an all chain rode. (thinking 3:1
> all
> > > chain, calm
> > > > conditions; 5:1 chain/nylon rode, calm
> conditions;
> > > 7:1 chain/nylon
> > > > rode, more difficult conditions)
> > > >
> > > > Mary Lou
> > > > 1991 R22 Fretless
> > > > Ft. Washington, PA / Swan Creek, MD
> > > >
> > > > At 09:30 AM 3/19/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Bill,
> > > >>
> > > >> As I understand the function of chain, its
> > > primary purpose is to
> > > >> prevent line abrasion on the bottom.  If you
> > > don't have a rough
> > > >> bottom you really don't need chain.  As soon
> as
> > > you set a Danford
> > > >> type anchor you have pulled the chain off the
> > > bottom, and the chain
> > > >> and line should stay off the bottom, putting
> all
> > > the pressure on the
> > > >> anchor flukes and causing them to dig
> strongly
> > > into the bottom.
> > > >> If you have sufficient scope, the pressure on
> the
> > > anchor is
> > > >> horizontal within the design specifications,
> and
> > > it should reset
> > > >> itself as needed if the boat slowly swings
> around
> > > it due to wind or
> > > >> current shifts.  When you are ready to
> retrieve
> > > it, you move the boat
> > > >> over the anchor and pull vertically, and the
> > > anchor releases.  (You
> > > >> can pull the boat over the anchor by hauling
> in
> > > the line, but it's
> > > >> much easier to motor over, and pull just line
> > > straight up until you
> > > >> get to the anchor, which in our case should
> weigh
> > > less than 10 lbs.)
> > > >> The beauty of the Fortress anchors is that
> they
> > > are both lighter and
> > > >> stronger than conventional anchors.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bill Effros
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> William E. Wickman wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> You are right Wally.  It is all mud and clay
> > > with the occasional
> > > >>> rock cropping here.  I think I may cut my 20
> ft
> > > chain in half and
> > > >>> carry the resulting pair of 10 ft lengths
> for
> > > use when I go to the
> > > >>> coast.
> > > >>> Bill W.
> > > >>> --------------------------
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces
> > > >>> Sent: 03/19/2005 06:57 AM
> > > >>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Anchor Chain
> > > Question
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Bill,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I agree with Bill here. I started out using
> > > about 8 feet of chain.
> > > >>> For my conditions I quickly found out that I
> > > don't need any chain. I
> > > >>> anchors in fairly shallow coves with red
> clay
> > > bottom. It has never
> > > >>> been a problem. The chain seemed like extra
> > > hassle and weight.
> > > >>> Everyone told me this was going to be a big
> > > problem. It has worked
> > > >>> just fine and I spend a bunch of nights
> > > anchored. I would guess your
> > > >>> conditions up river are much the same. If
> you
> > > plan on towing your
> > > >>> boat to the coast I would suggest chain but
> > > don't see any need on
> > > >>> the river.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Wally.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> > > >>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Anchor Chain
> > > Question
> > > >>>> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:04:01 -0500
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Bill,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I've got the Fortress FX11, and I think
> it's a
> > > terrific anchor.  I
> > > >>>> also have the smallest Guardian anchor,
> which I
> > > store in a pouch,
> > > >>>> unassembled, and I've been very happy with
> that
> > > one also.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I think those people know a lot about
> anchors,
> > > and I would be
> > > >>>> inclined to follow their recommendations.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I have several lines with differing amounts
> of
> > > chain on each, and
> > > >>>> several with no chain at all.  I find I
> always
> > > go for the no chain
> > > >>>> at all, because I've never had any trouble
> with
> > > it, and it's so
> > > >>>> much easier to handle.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The trick to anchoring (as with so many
> other
> > > things) is practice.
> > > >>>> Try setting your anchor when it's not
> critical.
> > >  See if you have
> > > >>>> enough navigation skill to be able to
> determine
> > > if your anchor is
> > > >>>> dragging.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> When it's really blowing you shouldn't be
> on
> > > our boats in the first
> > > >>>> place.  Anchoring and praying is not the
> > > answer.  If you are
> > > >>>> trapped in a situation like this, and can't
> get
> > > to shore, head for
> > > >>>> open water and heave-to.  Practice
> heaving-to,
> > > too.  Work with the
> > > >>>> elements, not against them.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The guy who developed those anchors
> recommends
> > > setting 2 at 180
> > > >>>> degrees apart and tying both off on the
> bow.
> > > Then neither one will
> > > >>>> have to reset if current or wind shifts.
> > > Differing lengths of
> > > >>>> chain will  not matter, longer scope can be
> set
> > > because the boat
> > > >>>> will rotate in a much smaller arc relative
> to
> > > other boats.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Avoid anchor overkill.  That goes for the
> > > chain, too.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Bill Effros
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> William E. Wickman wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> I just got my nifty Fortress FX7 anchor. 
> The
> > > instructions that
> > > >>>>> came with
> > > >>>>> the anchor said to use a short length of
> > > anchor chain (6 feet of
> > > >>>>> chain if
> > > >>>>> anchoring in 25' of water or less, and add
> > > another 6 feet of chain
> > > >>>>> for each
> > > >>>>> additional 25' of depth).  Their claim is
> that
> > > chain anchor rodes
> > > >>>>> lack the
> > > >>>>> shock absorbancy of nylon rope when the
> wind
> > > increases.  This
> > > >>>>> advice runs
> > > >>>>> contrary to what I have been reading in
> the
> > > Rhodes FAQ that most
> > > >>>>> of you are
> > > >>>>> using around 20 feet of chain.  So, does
> the
> > > Fortress require less
> > > >>>>> chain
> > > >>>>> because it is so light?  What gives?  I
> > > presume that these anchor
> > > >>>>> guys know
> > > >>>>> what they are talking about, but...
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Also, since I have 20 feet of chain that I
> use
> > > with my gbi anchor,
> > > >>>>> what are
> > > >>>>> the dynamics of using shorter chain on a
> > > second anchor when
> > > >>>>> setting two
> > > >>>>> anchors?  Does it really matter?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> B. Wickman
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
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> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > >
> __________________________________________________
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> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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