[Rhodes22-list] what is list etiquette? Ignore That!

Rik Sandberg sanderico at earthlink.net
Wed May 18 20:13:39 EDT 2005 

Bill,

"but I've never seen a problem about killing over my damned book.  That 
is noble; patriotic; holy, ... "

It's a BOOK, ONE copy of it, not a belief. If no one saw it, the 
destruction of that one book would make exactly ZERO difference in what 
happened tomorrow, for anybody.  Jeez do ya think even a MuslIm 
extremest would have much trouble finding another one??? I know it's 
hard for them when they're so busy playing with their mental blocks.

"their God" is the same God you worship," Yeah, I know .... I've been 
told that by more than one Muslim with a half a lick of sense, who 
believe that all this extremism is just as damned stupid as I do. Here's 
a news flash, I don't much like Christian extremists either.

Rik

> Bill,
>
> "but I've never seen a problem about killing over my damned book.  
> That is noble; patriotic; holy, ... "
>
> It's a BOOK, ONE copy of it, not a belief. If no one saw it, the 
> destruction of that one book would make exactly ZERO difference in 
> what happened tomorrow, for anybody.  Jeez do ya think even a MuslIm 
> extremest would have much trouble finding another one??? I know it's 
> hard for them when they're so busy playing with their mental blocks.
>
> "their God" is the same God you worship," Yeah, I know .... I've been 
> told that by more than one Muslim with a half a lick of sense, who 
> believe that all this extremism is just as damned stupid as I do. 
> Here's a news flash, I don't much like Christian extremists either.
>
> Rik
>
>
> Bill Effros wrote:
>
>> "killing people over a damned book is stupid"
>>
>> The Holy Roman Empire.
>> The Crusades.
>> The Inquisition.
>> The Holocaust.
>>
>> Please people.  The list goes on and on.
>> I think what you mean to say is similar to what everyone else says:  
>> "Killing people over someone else's damned book is stupid, but I've 
>> never seen a problem about killing over my damned book.  That is 
>> noble; patriotic; holy, ... "
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> PS -- If you are Christian, Jewish, Mormon; Unitarian; Protestant; 
>> Catholic; Baptist; Fundamentalist; Creationist; or a follower of Rev. 
>> Moon--"their God" is the same God you worship, and Muslims trace 
>> their beliefs to the same books, and believe that those books are all 
>> the word of the same God.
>>
>> PPS -- Cheryl, be a mensch--you must have something to say--you 
>> started this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>
>>> Slim,
>>>
>>> You know, we can reason and discuss how these people might feel on 
>>> and on into infinity. But the bottom line is, killing people over a 
>>> damned book is stupid..... pure and simple, whether the rumor about 
>>> the toilet was true or not.
>>>
>>> I'll not be making excuses for these people to make behaviour like 
>>> this seem somehow acceptable. I doubt their "God" would either.
>>>
>>> Your first statement about wasted breath is probably right on the 
>>> mark though.
>>>
>>> Rik
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Steve Alm <salm at mn.rr.com>
>>> Sent: May 18, 2005 3:35 PM
>>> To: Rhodes <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] what is list etiquette? Ignore That!
>>>
>>> Brad,
>>>
>>> Thanks.  I mostly agree with the article however calling for 
>>> "perspective
>>> and objectivity" is a waste of breath.  By definition, "extremists" are
>>> incapable of that.  (And I don't just refer to Muslim extremists.)
>>>
>>> As I understand it, Islamic fundamentalists object to Democracy 
>>> because it
>>> puts men in charge of the law instead of Allah and the 
>>> Koran--(Qu'ran?)  So
>>> if the shoe were on the other foot, it would be like flushing the 
>>> Bible AND
>>> the Constitution.  That's the perspective WE need to keep in mind.  
>>> It's
>>> easy for us to sit back and condemn the Muslim extremists for 
>>> over-reacting
>>> to a tiny little blurb that may or may not have been true, but if 
>>> the Koran
>>> IS your whole world, how could you not protest?  They already view
>>> themselves as the losers and they're getting desperate.  Violent 
>>> reactions
>>> are as predictable as the sunrise when some country half way around the
>>> world strips you of your entire life/value and crams their own 
>>> ideology down
>>> your throat.  What did we expect?
>>>
>>> What bugs me is what Don Rumsfeld had to say: "Oh, you've got to be 
>>> very
>>> careful what you say..."  WHAT?  Look who's talking?  Frankly, I 
>>> wouldn't
>>> doubt that the story was indeed true and Newsweek was pressured to 
>>> retract
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Slim
>>>
>>> On 5/18/05 11:01 AM, "brad haslett" <flybrad at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>> Ric,
>>>>
>>>> I was responding to your post when my daughter put her
>>>> elbow on the keyboard (I'm home all week playing Mr.
>>>> Mom.)  Ignore that first post.  At least she didn't
>>>> call 911 like she did when she was 1 1/2.  Those cops
>>>> still think I'm lying.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I've been too busy to make any pithy political
>>>> comments but not to busy to read.  Here's an article
>>>> from today's Chicago Tribune.  Not only is it funny in
>>>> its own way but dead on the money correct.  This is
>>>> neither left nor right folks, just a fastball straight
>>>> down the middle.
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>> "CoraShen"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seeking sanity in the asylum
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> By Kathleen Parker
>>>>
>>>> May 18, 2005
>>>>
>>>> Reaction to an inaccurate Newsweek report that led
>>>> recently to rioting and death in Afghanistan suggests
>>>> that hysteria is, indeed, contagious.
>>>>
>>>> To briefly recap, Newsweek reported in a small blurb
>>>> May 9 that American interrogators at Guantanamo Bay
>>>> had flushed a Koran down a toilet in attempts to get
>>>> Muslim terror suspects to talk. Once the Newsweek
>>>> story was broadcast abroad, the usually reticent
>>>> hate-America crowd erupted in mass pique. Havoc
>>>> ensued. At least 15 Afghans died and many more were
>>>> injured.
>>>>
>>>> All because of a story that may not have been true.
>>>> The "knowledgeable U.S. government source" who told
>>>> Newsweek's Michael Isikoff and John Barry about the
>>>> flushing apparently wasn't so knowledgeable. At the
>>>> risk of seeming insensitive, may I suggest that c'est
>>>> la guerre and urge everyone to follow Dr. Lamaze's
>>>> always-useful advice: Breathe deeply and focus.
>>>>
>>>> What we need here is a little perspective.
>>>>
>>>> First, we all can agree that flushing a Koran down a
>>>> toilet, if physically possible, would be both
>>>> insensitive and rude, though Westerners generally have
>>>> a higher tolerance threshold for such offenses. Put it
>>>> this way: You could flush a Bible down the toilet in
>>>> front of Goober in Kabul, and it's unlikely that
>>>> Mayberry suddenly would be awash in blood.
>>>>
>>>> Without disrespecting true believers of Islam, one
>>>> also could debate the relative miseries of seeing our
>>>> favorite scripture disappear into the plumbing versus,
>>>> say, watching airplanes fly into buildings, killing
>>>> thousands of innocents. Remember, these are terrorist
>>>> suspects captured after 9/11, not kidnapped members of
>>>> an Afghan boys choir.
>>>>
>>>> The apparent Newsweek mistake was regrettable, but we
>>>> should beware of allowing ourselves to mirror the
>>>> emotional reactions of people who were by no measure
>>>> justified in their response--even if the story had
>>>> been proven true.
>>>>
>>>> The same people foaming over a reported act of
>>>> blasphemy didn't flinch while executing women for
>>>> stepping outside sans burqa. I'm afraid my moral
>>>> outrage in favor of the morally outrageous is tapped
>>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> While the world was reacting in righteous indignation
>>>> to the Newsweek report, another story was circulating
>>>> about Turkish women in Germany being executed by
>>>> family members in "honor killings" sanctioned by
>>>> certain interpretations of the Koran. Their offense?
>>>> Acting like Western women. Or, in the pithy words of a
>>>> 14-year-old Turkish boy who was justifying an
>>>> execution: "The whore lived like a German."
>>>>
>>>> Before the good Muslim world objects, let me assert
>>>> what shouldn't need saying: Islam isn't the problem
>>>> here. The problem is ignorance and the right-wing
>>>> Islamist faction that will use the Koran for its
>>>> purposes, whether to incite a riot or murder a woman
>>>> who refuses to wear her headscarf. The enemy is
>>>> extremism.
>>>>
>>>> I have no interest either in defending Newsweek or in
>>>> justifying interrogators' methods, but let's be blunt:
>>>> Those rampaging in Afghanistan didn't need a reason to
>>>> riot; they needed an excuse. That the media provided
>>>> one is regrettable, but that regret needs to be
>>>> tempered by perspective and objectivity.
>>>>
>>>> Instead, much of the anger the past several days has
>>>> been directed not at the Islamist extremists who went
>>>> berserk, but at the reporters who apparently got the
>>>> story wrong. What if they'd been right? Should
>>>> Newsweek not have reported it? Would the riots have
>>>> been justified if someone had flushed a Koran?
>>>>
>>>> We might debate those questions, but meanwhile we
>>>> should resist the urge to overreact as some have in
>>>> suggesting that the press should be restricted or
>>>> stifled. Although imperfect, a free press is one of
>>>> our nation's highest expressions of freedom and the
>>>> thing that separates us from the same right-wing,
>>>> authoritarian, extremist forces that we condemn. Yet,
>>>> an alarming number of Americans, their faith in
>>>> journalists damaged by recent scandals, have lost
>>>> sight of the meaning and importance of a free press.
>>>>
>>>> A recent University of Connecticut survey found, for
>>>> example, that only 14 percent of respondents knew that
>>>> freedom of the press was part of the 1st Amendment.
>>>> Only 55 percent of those surveyed strongly agreed that
>>>> newspapers should be allowed "to publish freely
>>>> without government approval of a story." Now there's a
>>>> finding to warm the cockles of a Taliban heart.
>>>>
>>>> Once we start asking the government for permission to
>>>> publish, we become partners in propaganda and cohorts
>>>> of authoritarianism. Far better to risk mistakes--and
>>>> even riots from the lunatic fringe--than to forfeit
>>>> the right to question authority.
>>>>
>>>> Mistakes will be made, but freedom means living to
>>>> say, "I'm sorry."
>>>>
>>>> Kathleen Parker is a syndicated columnist for the
>>>> Orlando Sentinel, a Tribune newspaper. ----------
>>>>
>>>> E-mail: kparker at kparker.com
>>>> Copyright ? 2005, Chicago Tribune
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>> --- Rik Sandberg <sanderico at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheryl,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somehow, I don't think that "political screed" was
>>>>>> all there was to that message, was it? Wasn't it
>>>>>> just one of Ed's little signature addendums? I
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>> think
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd do my best to get over it if you want to hang
>>>>>> out on the Rhodes list, because, we talk about
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>> most
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>> anything here, sometimes even politics. Maybe it
>>>>>> would be good if you went to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and read the charter. Then you can decide what is
>>>>>> appropriate .... or not and and decide whether you
>>>>>> want to stay .... or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Cheryl O'Grady <cheryl.ogrady at mail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: May 18, 2005 8:49 AM
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] what is list etiquette?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think it is kosher for someone to use my
>>>>>> email address from the list to send political
>>>>>> screed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is
>>>>>> that good men do nothing."  Edmund Burke, Irish
>>>>>> philosopher
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Mail
>>>>> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
>>>>> tour:
>>>>> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Mail
>>>> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
>>>> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>  
>>>
>

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