[Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war

[Robert Quinn]

Wow!  Jumping on Stan's thread, from the news lately with the Army missing 
it "quota," the draft may not be too far away.  I, for one, did not agree 
when Nixon did away with it.  Too many of our citizens lose out on an 
opportunity to learn about life by not either serving in the armed forces or 
a suitable alternative for those so inclined.  With a draft (fairly 
administered as Stan states) all levels of our citizens serve thus assuring 
that when a commitment is made to engage, the general public stands by for 
an accounting.  Today when we lose people like Swartskof, Powell,  Franks 
and others to retirement, we lose the commitment that they made to assure 
that if we ever get involved again, we do no put limitations on winning (as 
Rummy points out).  These commitments were made by their experiences in Viet 
Nam.

The frustration of us who served in Viet Nam lingers today.  When we saw 
opportunites to inflict damage to the enemies capabilities to wage actions 
against us and the ARVN, and were not permitted to engage, let me tell you 
there were many among us who were wondering if we were looking the wrong 
way.

I spent the last three months of my twenty-nine year career in the Air Force 
servings with the US Navy on the Command and Control ship (USS LaSalle) in 
the Arabian Gulf (Persian Gulf, if you want to annoy all the Gulf 
countries).  Our rules of engagement for Desert Shield (escorting Kuwait 
tankers to protect them from the Iranian threat at that time) were pretty 
clear.  If threatened, fire.  Our French, English, and other country 
counterparts were right there beside us

By the way it was a pleasure serving on the J2 Staff on a Navy ship.  I 
quickly realized that the American public has no idea as to the debt of 
gratitude that we owe to the young (and not so young) men and women who 
serve in the United States Navy and the Marines who serve with them. 
((Think about four or five of you living on a R22 for three or four months 
with limited shore leave, if any.))

Bob
Lt Col, USAF (ret.)
1959 - 1989

now serving in luxury on the "NoKaOi"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deena" <pestyone57 at comcast.net>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war


> Thank you Lloyd, I understand.  Deena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Lloyd Crowther
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:45 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>
> Deena,
>
> This list has members of many persuasions.  Amoug the older of us, Stan 
> and
> I both were in WWII .  Stan represents the parents who do not want their
> kids to get sucked into the present situation because of their beliefs, 
> for
> which I do not blame or condone them.  I on the other hand have a son, the
> youngest of my five kids, who has just been promoted to bird colonel in 
> the
> Army.  I am very proud of him and what he has been and is doing. Some of 
> the
> long time list members may remember my message about his adventure at the
> pentagon on 9/11.
>
> I have been on this list for, I guess, five or six years now and sometimes
> disagree with the pronouncements of some of the list members.  But this 
> list
> is basicly about Rhodes22s so I try to keep out of all the political stuff
> and try to learn more about this sailboat from the other members.  And I
> have gleaned a lot Rhodes22 information over the years, for which I thank
> you all no matter your other outlooks on life are.  Life is like salt and
> pepper, some people like alot of one and little of the other, but in the
> long run everybody likes some of it sometimes.  Spice to taste but lets 
> not
> loose sight of the basic purpose of the list.  And Deena, you have your
> supporters too, even if they aren't always the most vocal on the list.
>
> Lloyd
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deena" <pestyone57 at comcast.net>
> To: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>; "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:13 AM
> Subject: RE: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>
>
>> Unfortunately it is the right choice.  My husband is a former US marine,
>> and
>> currently a lieutenant colonel (Military Intelligence) in the US Army
>> stationed at US Central Command.  He was retired and called back shortly
>> after 911.  He is still on active duty and will do another 2 1/2 years.
>> He
>> did not have to go.   It was a declared war and there is not going to be 
>> a
>> draft, at least for sometime since we do have a volunteer army and a lot
>> of
>> reservists thanks to Clintons draw down. We went from an army of 2 1/2
>> million to a little more than 400,000 active duty.  Big drop.   If we 
>> were
>> not over seas, there would be a lot more deaths here in the US.  You 
>> would
>> be surprised at what the US has already found and stopped here.   I have 
>> 2
>> boys, one who will be appearing in the movie the "New World" I wouldn't
>> want
>> them to go on any political venture either.  But sometimes you have to
>> make
>> a stand.  Deena
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of stan
>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 7:51 AM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>
>> thanks for the rare sharing, Rummy.
>>
>> Still waiting for Steve and friends to back up their bravado with
>> enlisting
>> or Bush to let his daughters sign up.  Maybe war is exciting and 
>> glamorous
>> for some who stay home and hire others - but if it really, really, really
>> is
>> the right thing to do, as several on the List seem to think, then it
>> should
>> also be the right thing to declare war, have a fair draft for those asked
>> to
>> serve and rationing for the fully committed home front.  I for one would
>> never allow my kids to be taken for any half hearted venture where the
>> politically correct back up is tax cutting and magnetic symbols.
>>
>> stan, WW11
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 4:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re: Commitment to war
>>
>>
>>> Herb and all,
>>>
>>> Neither the body count or the number in country had anything to do  with
>>> our
>>> commitment or lack thereof in Vietnam. When a soldier is being fired
>>> upon
>>> and
>>> has to radio for permission to return fire, that's a lack of 
>>> commitment.
>>> Remember, we didn't have cell phones in those days and military 
>>> radio's,
>>> as good
>>> as they were, often couldn't contact anyone. I was with an  armored unit
>>> in I
>>> Corps (DMZ area) from 1970 to 1971 and saw a lot of strange  stuff, but
>>> having to ask for permission to return fire is the one thing that 
>>> really
>>> burned my
>>> butt. Sometimes we just didn't ask for permission and pleaded  no radio
>>> contact when questioned after the fact. It was easier and saved our
>>> butts
>>> on many
>>> an occasion.
>>> The one thing that concerns me when these discussions come up on the 
>>> list
>>> is
>>> that I doubt that many people on either side of the issue know what
>>> happens
>>> to the human body when it is hit with a fifty caliber round or a 
>>> grenade.
>>> Or,
>>> when a RPG hits a tank and burns through the armament and blows up 
>>> inside
>>> the
>>> tank turning those bodies into chipped beef. War isn't pretty people.
>>> Part
>>> of my  duties while in Vietnam were to identify bodies at the morgue 
>>> when
>>> they
>>> were  brought in from the field. I still have nightmares about my
>>> experiences,
>>> and  don't talk about them very often. The decision to go to war has to
>>> be
>>> taken very  seriously. People talking about body counts like your
>>> counting
>>> cord
>>> wood makes  me sick. Take a walk through a veterans hospital sometime 
>>> and
>>> meet
>>> some of the  walking dead. Your thoughts on war will change, I guarantee
>>> it.
>>> War isn't good  for any living thing.
>>> Time to step off the soap box and mix a drink. Coke has a new Diet Coke
>>> made
>>> with Splenda. No more Nutrasweet poisoning. Yeah!
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>
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