[Rhodes22-list] Children/drugs

Sat May 28 11:20:26 EDT 2005

Philip,

I believe you are sincere when you say I can say what I like, and it is 
for that reason that I am responding to your post.

(Also because I thought your definition of Keynesian Economics was 
excellent, and I welcome thoughts of that caliber.)

I am willing to take you at your word, posted elsewhere, that you read 
and reflect on what is written by others.

Rummy wrote a satire, and labeled it properly.  You responded.  I responded.

But satire is, by its very nature, more pointed than a joke.  The point 
was too sharp for many on the list who heretofore have maintained a 
totally laissez-faire position with regard to everything posted whether 
or not it was properly labeled.

Ever since Cheryl's posting about objectionable political content, this 
list has been consumed by politics at the expense of Rhodes-22 
information, to the extent that many people interested in boat 
information have dropped off the list, leaving many people who would 
sooner talk politics all day.   Not only do you not have a Rhodes-22, 
but neither do most of the people who jumped in to support you:  Mark, 
Rik, Herb, Michael--To the best of my knowledge, none of them currently 
owns a Rhodes-22, either.

There are generally 100-200 people on the list.  You posted 35-40 times 
in one day.  If everyone did what you did, we'd be looking at 3500 to 
8000 emails in our mailboxes every day.  That is excessive in my view.

But let us turn our attention to the real point.  I know you noticed 
this posting is not labeled "satire".

I have reared sons.  (My sons are more than twice your sons' ages.)  I 
have taught school.  (The hardest job I ever had.)   A doctor friend 
spent his life determining the proper dosage of Ritalin for children.  
(He says it works.)  I worked for PBS.  (They still produce great 
television that simply can't get on the air anywhere else.)  I have 
always opposed "nation building".  (It is ignorant meddling in the 
affairs of others at great cost to ourselves.  It always backfires.)

Rummy asked you the right satirical questions:  "Hey, what kid wouldn't 
want to do drugs?  Did you ever ask him?"

Ritalin is speed.  Why do you think kids in college use speed when they 
are cramming for tests?  Because it works.  It not only allows them to 
stay up longer (that's what the parents think) and get high, (that's 
what the kids think); but it also helps them to learn faster.  A kid 
with a Ritalin prescription in college doesn't need a college job.

And what about steroids?  How many 300 pound athletes were there in your 
high school class who were quicker than you?  Where do you think these 
kids are coming from?  Neither evolution nor intelligent design works 
that fast. Apart from what the steroids do to their systems, the kids 
become too heavy for their legs, and many are crippled for life.  But 
they all think they're going to make it in the NFL.  As a group they're 
not good at statistics.

And what about crack, weed, meth, ice, smack, coke, ... I'm too old to 
be able to run them all down anymore.

Who is going to be able to help steer your boys through that thicket?  
The guidance counselor?  I think not.

Iraq is a morass.  We can never "win".  We can't even define what a 
"win" would look like.  Sooner or later we are going to turn tail and 
run.  You know it.  I know it.  And the Iraqis know it.  All they have 
to do is wait.  After we go, they will fight for the oil amongst 
themselves, and we will buy it from the winners.

You are not defending me by killing Iraqis.  Iraqis are not my enemy.  
You are not defending your children by killing Iraqis.  Your children 
need you at home.  Right now!  To help them answer the questions that no 
one but a father can answer for his sons.

That is the real point of my satire, and you seem to be bright enough to 
get it without this long winded explanation.

If, as you and Deena have repeatedly said, you could be out of the Army 
this summer, do it!  This has nothing to do with disrespecting 
soldiers.  Our military has been handed an impossible task.  The 
military leaders who have said so have been drummed out and replaced 
with sycophants.  You should leave with the good guys, and leave this 
disastrous exercise in political hypocrisy.  If enough good soldiers 
vote with their boots, our so-called "leaders" (virtually none of whom 
ever saw combat duty) will bring this sorry mess to a quick resolution.

In your heart you know I'm right.  And that's why so many people didn't 
want you to hear what I've got to say.  It is not polite to speak truth 
to power.

Buy yourself a sailboat this summer.  Go out with your wife and your 
kids.  There isn't a better boat in the world than a Rhodes-22 for 
sitting with your kids and talking about drugs, and war, and spelling, 
and Chaucer, and everything kids need to know in order to become good 
adults.

I know you will think about what I have said, and I want you to know I 
will respect whatever decision you make.

Bill Effros

Philip Esteban wrote:

>Bill,
>    You can say what you like.  I have posted to-day because I jumped in on
>a specific issue and I am off.  Generally I usually delete most of these
>without responding.  I only mentioned my son's school situation because of
>the discussion on public schools.  That position is not extreme.  Support of
>the Constitution and the Bill of Rights isn't extreme either.  I don't see
>any reason to become vicious, but your comment reminds me of the baby-killer
>chants the soldiers heard in the latter part of the Vietnam war.  Blame us
>for government policy.  If you don't like it, change the government.
>    As for not owning a boat, first, if I had ignored my orders (and avoided
>jail) I would have been able to purchase a boat, but then, I didn't find out
>about the Rhodes-22 until I met Stan and Elton in Florida on a day off when
>I went to the boat show.  Stan and Elton invited us to join the list and
>here we are.
>
>Philip
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 4:52 PM
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Children/drugs/satire
>
>
>Mark,
>
>Philip and Deena don't even own a Rhodes-22.  By my count, Philip has
>posted to this list 35 times within a 2 hour period today alone.  Both
>he and Deena have repeatedly injected their family situation to support
>their extreme political comments.  That was not me.  We have been giving
>them a pass on this junk for months.  No more.  They chose to swim with
>sharks, defending them by calling them mullets won't work.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>
>Mark Kaynor wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I agree wholeheartedly. Let's play nice, folks.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Herb Parsons
>>Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:35 PM
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Children/drugs/satire
>>
>>With all due respect to the "open nature" of the list, I think attacking
>>    
>>
>one
>  
>
>>over family issues should be totally off limits.
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>bill at effros.com 5/27/2005 1:02:59 PM >>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>How would you know?  You seem to have made a conscious decision to be
>>elsewhere during the years your sons need you the most.
>>
>>Bill Effros
>>
>>Philip Esteban wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Thanks, but he's doing fine without them.
>>>
>>>Philip
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of
>>>R22RumRunner at aol.com
>>>Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:38 AM
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Children/drugs/satire
>>>
>>>
>>>Philip,
>>>Hey, what kid wouldn't want to do drugs? Did you ever ask him?
>>>
>>>Rummy
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>__________________________________________________
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>
>  
>