[Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Herb

Mon Nov 21 16:22:56 EST 2005

Cheryl, you're using circular logic. It's YOUR argument that those that took deferments are draft dodgers, not mine.

I didn't consider President Clinton a draft dodger, although if I remember correctly, there was some question as to the whether the deferments option had run out, and he failed to register while out of the country. Doesn't matter to me, I don't consider him a draft dodger.

I don't consider Cheney or President Bush draft dodgers either.

But again, it wasn't my assertion, it was yours. I'm just trying to find out your definition of such.

So to sum up, in the world according to Cheryl:

Those that used their family ties to serve in the guard to avoid the draft are draft dodgers.
Those that went to college and used their deferments who were poor were not draft dodgers.
Those that used their deferments who were rich were draft dodgers.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here, but the pattern I see has less to do with how one avoided the draft, and more to do with what party to which one is affiliated.

If you want to argue against the merits of the war, that's fine. But, don't try to discredit the President's right to command. He was elected. Don't discredit his right to take advice from his vice-president, HE was elected. 

Herb Parsons

S/V O'Jure
  1976 O'Day 25
  Lake Grapevine, N TX

S/V Reve de Papa
  1971 Coronado 35
  Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast

>>> cheryl.ogrady at mail.com 11/21/2005 4:07:11 PM >>>
I liked Wally's response - yes, they were all draft dodgers, because they avoided the draft.  They found legal means to avoid the draft.
Some draft dodgers did actually put in service to the country, ie, those who went into the NG.  However, not all who went in served their time, at least, there seems to be some question....

And, yes, Clinton also avoided the draft, but not because of family connections.... I ask if you consider Clinton a draft dodger, because if you do, then wouldn't Cheney and others who took deferments also be dodgers?

As to the final portion of your comment, YOU may have a beef with 
> those who "actively sought to avoid the fighting... etc etc etc", 
> but the fact remains, George W Bush was elected to be commander in 
> chief  of the military, no matter, because of or maybe in spite of, 
> his past military record. Just because some don't LIKE that past, 
> doesn't change anything.

retch, puke, vomit

----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org 
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Herb
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:42:05 -0600

> 
> You didn't answer any of my questions. Instead, you diverted it to 
> what "your beef" is. Frankly, I don't care what your beef is, and 
> you established quite some time ago that you don't like this war.
> 
> Do I need to repeat my questions, or are you simply going to "dodge" them?
> 
> As to the final portion of your comment, YOU may have a beef with 
> those who "actively sought to avoid the fighting... etc etc etc", 
> but the fact remains, George W Bush was elected to be commander in 
> chief  of the military, no matter, because of or maybe in spite of, 
> his past military record. Just because some don't LIKE that past, 
> doesn't change anything.
> 
> Herb Parsons
> 
> S/V O'Jure
>    1976 O'Day 25
>    Lake Grapevine, N TX
> 
> S/V Reve de Papa
>    1971 Coronado 35
>    Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
> 
> >>> cheryl.ogrady at mail.com 11/21/2005 2:17:38 PM >>>
> do you consider Clinton a draft dodger?  how many deferments did he have?
> I do have a beef with those who used family influence to "cut in 
> line," so to speak, ahead of people with not quite so much 
> political influence; didn't I read somewhere that if Bush's father 
> weren't who he was, his score on the pilot's test wasn't enough to 
> get him to be a pilot?  of course, I don't really know what 
> criteria they use to determine priority in taking people into the 
> guard.
> 
> I mostly have a beef with people who didn't fight, who actively 
> sought to avoid the fighting, getting us into this big, giant, 
> sucking  cesspool called Operation Iraqi Freedom.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Bob Skinner's post
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:34 -0600
> 
> >
> > Is it your asertion that those that served in the National Guard instead of
> > vietnam were ALL "draft dodgers"?  Is it further your assertion that
> > thosethat ttok advantage of exisisting deferrments were "draft dodgers"?
> > finally, do you consider Bill Clinton a "draft dodger"?
> > ___
> > Sent with SnapperMail
> > www.snappermail.com ..... Original Message .......
> > On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:11:28 -0600 "Cheryl O'Grady"
> > <cheryl.ogrady at mail.com> wrote:
> > > Bob,
> > > I found your post very interesting, particularly the conclusion that we
> > need more troops to close the borders.
> > >
> > > Believe it or not, because I never supported the invasion of Iraq, I think
> > we need to send more troops in to get the job finished so we can get out
> > and go home.  See, once they decided to do it, they should have done it
> > right.  My heart goes out to the troops who feel we don't support them.  I
> > do, and so do most who are against the war.  I don't advocate an immediate
> > pullout, that would be wrong, for all the guys who died or were maimed
> > during service there, and also for the civilians who would be left in the
> > middle of a vicious civil war.  We broke it, we need to fix it.  We just
> > had no business going in in the first place.
> > >
> > > How do you suggest that people who are against the war should express
> > their dissent and dissatisfaction in such a way as to honor the people
> > doing the fighting while dumping porta-potti contents on the draft-dodgers
> > who got us in there in the first place?  Oh, sorry, those were deferments,
> > weren't they, and daddy-connected reserve jobs....not draft-dodging.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Skinner" <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest.... (political)
> > 	-JohnMurtha chimes in
> > > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:09:14 -0500
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Mike -
> > >>
> > >> What do you think of this?  It showed up in my inbox, unsolicited,
> > >> but may be valid.  I trust no source any more, except friends who
> > >> are coming back, and each of them has a necessarily limited view
> > >> of the conflict/situation.
> > >>
> > >> How does it square with what you are hearing?
> > >>
> > >> Do you have an opinion about whether we should pull out?
> > >> Or should we send in enuf troops to seal borders?
> > >> Do we have enuf force to seal borders?
> > >>
> > >> /Bob
> > >>
> > >> > The following is a report from a grunt in Iraq and is something that
> > will
> > >> > almost never be shown on the left leaning news networks.
> > >> >
> > >> > Subject: Report From Down Range
> > >> >
> > >> > This was sent to me a West Coast USAR CW3 who got it from a Semper Fi,
> > UAL
> > >> > retired, east coast type.
> > >> >
> > >> > Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans and interested
> > >> > guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan,
> > who
> > >> > was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little
> > >> > thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second
> > tour in
> > >> > early 06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more years. He loves
> > the
> > >> > Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq.
> > >> >
> > >> > Jordan spent 7 months at Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi. Aka: Fort
> > Apache. He
> > >> > saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons,
> > >> > equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of
> > interest to
> > >> > you.
> > >> >
> > >> > Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here, just a Marine
> > with a
> > >> > birds eye views opinions:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the
> > talcum
> > >> > powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you
> > feel
> > >> > filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine
> > version is
> > >> > more popular because its lighter and shorter, but it has jamming
> > problems
> > >> > also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and
> > >> > weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not
> > great in
> > >> > a desert environment.
> > >> >
> > >> > They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the
> > cinderblock
> > >> > structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably
> > counted on
> > >> > to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents
> > shows a
> > >> > high level of opiate use.
> > >> >
> > >> > 2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light
> > machine
> > >> > gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic
> > >> > jamming problems, most of w
> > __________________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do 
> nothing."  Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher
> 
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher

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