[Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Herb
Cheryl O'Grady
cheryl.ogrady at mail.com
Mon Nov 21 16:32:13 EST 2005
for the whole time of Clinton's presidency, all we heard about from
the right was that he was a draft-dodger. I merely carried that
through to the current administration.
this has been a fun thread, and good practice as I head to Dallas
to celebrate the holiday. we have some jolly discussions, the fun
thing is that they used to be all die-hard republican and now
several of my siblings are leaning away from Bush, though I guess
they still consider themselves republicans.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Herb
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:22:56 -0600
>
> Cheryl, you're using circular logic. It's YOUR argument that those
> that took deferments are draft dodgers, not mine.
>
> I didn't consider President Clinton a draft dodger, although if I
> remember correctly, there was some question as to the whether the
> deferments option had run out, and he failed to register while out
> of the country. Doesn't matter to me, I don't consider him a draft
> dodger.
>
> I don't consider Cheney or President Bush draft dodgers either.
>
> But again, it wasn't my assertion, it was yours. I'm just trying to
> find out your definition of such.
>
> So to sum up, in the world according to Cheryl:
>
> Those that used their family ties to serve in the guard to avoid
> the draft are draft dodgers.
> Those that went to college and used their deferments who were poor
> were not draft dodgers.
> Those that used their deferments who were rich were draft dodgers.
>
> I'm beginning to see a pattern here, but the pattern I see has less
> to do with how one avoided the draft, and more to do with what
> party to which one is affiliated.
>
> If you want to argue against the merits of the war, that's fine.
> But, don't try to discredit the President's right to command. He
> was elected. Don't discredit his right to take advice from his
> vice-president, HE was elected.
>
> Herb Parsons
>
> S/V O'Jure
> 1976 O'Day 25
> Lake Grapevine, N TX
>
> S/V Reve de Papa
> 1971 Coronado 35
> Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>
> >>> cheryl.ogrady at mail.com 11/21/2005 4:07:11 PM >>>
> I liked Wally's response - yes, they were all draft dodgers,
> because they avoided the draft. They found legal means to avoid
> the draft.
> Some draft dodgers did actually put in service to the country, ie,
> those who went into the NG. However, not all who went in served
> their time, at least, there seems to be some question....
>
> And, yes, Clinton also avoided the draft, but not because of family
> connections.... I ask if you consider Clinton a draft dodger,
> because if you do, then wouldn't Cheney and others who took
> deferments also be dodgers?
>
> As to the final portion of your comment, YOU may have a beef with
> > those who "actively sought to avoid the fighting... etc etc etc",
> > but the fact remains, George W Bush was elected to be commander
> > in chief of the military, no matter, because of or maybe in
> > spite of, his past military record. Just because some don't LIKE
> > that past, doesn't change anything.
>
> retch, puke, vomit
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Herb
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:42:05 -0600
>
> >
> > You didn't answer any of my questions. Instead, you diverted it
> > to what "your beef" is. Frankly, I don't care what your beef is,
> > and you established quite some time ago that you don't like this
> > war.
> >
> > Do I need to repeat my questions, or are you simply going to "dodge" them?
> >
> > As to the final portion of your comment, YOU may have a beef with
> > those who "actively sought to avoid the fighting... etc etc etc",
> > but the fact remains, George W Bush was elected to be commander
> > in chief of the military, no matter, because of or maybe in
> > spite of, his past military record. Just because some don't LIKE
> > that past, doesn't change anything.
> >
> > Herb Parsons
> >
> > S/V O'Jure
> > 1976 O'Day 25
> > Lake Grapevine, N TX
> >
> > S/V Reve de Papa
> > 1971 Coronado 35
> > Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
> >
> > >>> cheryl.ogrady at mail.com 11/21/2005 2:17:38 PM >>>
> > do you consider Clinton a draft dodger? how many deferments did he have?
> > I do have a beef with those who used family influence to "cut in
> > line," so to speak, ahead of people with not quite so much
> > political influence; didn't I read somewhere that if Bush's
> > father weren't who he was, his score on the pilot's test wasn't
> > enough to get him to be a pilot? of course, I don't really know
> > what criteria they use to determine priority in taking people
> > into the guard.
> >
> > I mostly have a beef with people who didn't fight, who actively
> > sought to avoid the fighting, getting us into this big, giant,
> > sucking cesspool called Operation Iraqi Freedom.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] (political) response to Bob Skinner's post
> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:34 -0600
> >
> > >
> > > Is it your asertion that those that served in the National
> Guard instead of
> > > vietnam were ALL "draft dodgers"? Is it further your assertion that
> > > thosethat ttok advantage of exisisting deferrments were "draft dodgers"?
> > > finally, do you consider Bill Clinton a "draft dodger"?
> > > ___
> > > Sent with SnapperMail
> > > www.snappermail.com ..... Original Message .......
> > > On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:11:28 -0600 "Cheryl O'Grady"
> > > <cheryl.ogrady at mail.com> wrote:
> > > > Bob,
> > > > I found your post very interesting, particularly the
> conclusion that we
> > > need more troops to close the borders.
> > > >
> > > > Believe it or not, because I never supported the invasion of
> > Iraq, I think
> > > we need to send more troops in to get the job finished so we can get out
> > > and go home. See, once they decided to do it, they should have done it
> > > right. My heart goes out to the troops who feel we don't
> support them. I
> > > do, and so do most who are against the war. I don't advocate
> an immediate
> > > pullout, that would be wrong, for all the guys who died or were maimed
> > > during service there, and also for the civilians who would be
> left in the
> > > middle of a vicious civil war. We broke it, we need to fix it. We just
> > > had no business going in in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > How do you suggest that people who are against the war should express
> > > their dissent and dissatisfaction in such a way as to honor the people
> > > doing the fighting while dumping porta-potti contents on the
> draft-dodgers
> > > who got us in there in the first place? Oh, sorry, those
> were deferments,
> > > weren't they, and daddy-connected reserve jobs....not draft-dodging.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Robert Skinner" <robert at squirrelhaven.com>
> > > > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest....
> (political)
> > > -JohnMurtha chimes in
> > > > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:09:14 -0500
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Mike -
> > > >>
> > > >> What do you think of this? It showed up in my inbox, unsolicited,
> > > >> but may be valid. I trust no source any more, except friends who
> > > >> are coming back, and each of them has a necessarily limited view
> > > >> of the conflict/situation.
> > > >>
> > > >> How does it square with what you are hearing?
> > > >>
> > > >> Do you have an opinion about whether we should pull out?
> > > >> Or should we send in enuf troops to seal borders?
> > > >> Do we have enuf force to seal borders?
> > > >>
> > > >> /Bob
> > > >>
> > > >> > The following is a report from a grunt in Iraq and is
> something that
> > > will
> > > >> > almost never be shown on the left leaning news networks.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Subject: Report From Down Range
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This was sent to me a West Coast USAR CW3 who got it
> from a Semper Fi,
> > > UAL
> > > >> > retired, east coast type.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans
> > and interested
> > > >> > guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with
> my son Jordan,
> > > who
> > > >> > was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is
> well (a little
> > > >> > thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second
> > > tour in
> > > >> > early 06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more
> years. He loves
> > > the
> > > >> > Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Jordan spent 7 months at Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi. Aka: Fort
> > > Apache. He
> > > >> > saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me
> about weapons,
> > > >> > equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of
> > > interest to
> > > >> > you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here, just a Marine
> > > with a
> > > >> > birds eye views opinions:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the
> > > talcum
> > > >> > powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere.
> Jordan says you
> > > feel
> > > >> > filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine
> > > version is
> > > >> > more popular because its lighter and shorter, but it has jamming
> > > problems
> > > >> > also. They like the ability to mount the various optical
> gunsights and
> > > >> > weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not
> > > great in
> > > >> > a desert environment.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the
> > > cinderblock
> > > >> > structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably
> > > counted on
> > > >> > to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random autopsies on
> dead insurgents
> > > shows a
> > > >> > high level of opiate use.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light
> > > machine
> > > >> > gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of
> shit. Chronic
> > > >> > jamming problems, most of w
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men
> > do nothing." Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > __________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
> nothing." Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing." Edmund Burke, Irish philosopher
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