[Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's nest.... (political)

Tue Nov 22 13:25:40 EST 2005

Bill,

Welcome home!  We missed you.  You and I disagree.

Suprise!

Love,

Brad

--- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Cheryl.
> 
> I think you are right that we will cut and run, and
> that the only 
> question is when and how.  Mike Murtha is widely
> regarded in Washington 
> as the voice of the Pentagon on Capitol Hill. 
> That's why all the people 
> who were calling him a coward a few days ago are now
> calling him a war 
> hero.  It is widely understood that he was speaking
> for the Pentagon.
> 
> We now have 168,000 troops in Iraq.  We are clearly
> in a Viet Nam 
> moment.  The Pentagon knows we can't control Iraq
> with only 168,000 
> troops--we can barely protect our own forces.  In
> Viet Nam we escalated 
> to over 500,000.  That was only possible through the
> use of the draft.  
> Even with 565,000 troops, we still couldn't impose
> our will on South 
> Vietnam -- a country at that time with roughly the
> same number of people 
> as Iraq today, but physically much smaller.
> 
> We all know we aren't going to reimpose the draft to
> get out of Iraq.  
> The Army wants to get out of Iraq before the war
> destroys the concept of 
> a volunteer army.  It does not want to repeat the
> Viet Nam mistake.  It 
> used Mike Murtha to send the message.
> 
> There is no good way out.  We will surely leave a
> mess behind.  The only 
> thing left to be determined is the least worst way
> to leave.  That is 
> all the current debate is about.
> 
> Iraq was a bad place for us to fight terrorism. 
> That dog won't hunt.  
> We have made the problem worse, not better.  At
> least two thirds of the 
> country now agrees on those points, and the number
> agreeing grows every day.
> 
> I agree with Murtha, that we must decide how we are
> going to get out of 
> there, and proceed with the least loss of American
> life.  The people 
> killing our soldiers aren't going to leave.  They
> have no place to go, 
> and no prospects until we go.  They will be able to
> wait us out, and 
> they know it.  They have always known it.
> 
> Bill Effros
> 
> 
> 
> Cheryl O'Grady wrote:
> 
> >Bill, I love your website.  
> >
> >I can't wait to hear your stories of Italy, a place
> I love.  I spend a semester of college in Rome, one
> of the highlights of my life.  When I went back with
> my family a few years ago, I fell in love with it
> all over again.
> >
> >Cheryl
> > 
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] stirring the hornet's
> nest.... (political)
> >Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:31:03 -0500
> >
> >  
> >
> >>My, my, my ...
> >>
> >>I just figured out how to get to under 100 pieces
> of unread mail in a hurry!
> >>
> >>I'm going to do it, and I'm going to stay under
> 100!
> >>
> >>The long and the short of it, from my point of
> view, is this:
> >>
> >>I think the record of how we got from where we
> were to where we are 
> >>is pretty clear to most people.  I don't think
> more dissembling 
> >>will get the dissemblers off the hook.
> >>
> >>As many of you know, I compiled a book about this
> last year, 
> >>entitled "Quote Without Comment".  These are the
> actual words of 
> >>people who would now like you to forget what was
> said then.  I did 
> >>not comment on their words then, and I won't now.
> >>
> >>I have posted between 40 and 50 actual quotes over
> a 75 year period 
> >>on my website (www.QuoteWithoutComment.com).  Take
> a look.  It's 
> >>free.  No one disputes whether the quotes are
> accurate, or whether 
> >>all sides of the issues are fairly represented. 
> It's all there.
> >>
> >>There are another 700 quotes in the book.  You can
> download the PDF 
> >>version for $8-$10 from a number of different
> sites.  The 
> >>electronic version is terrific because it is
> instantaneously 
> >>searchable--I use it all the time.  It's a great
> reference on 
> >>recent history.  There is also a paperback and a
> Palm version 
> >>available.  Google: Quote Without Comment to find
> retailers.
> >>
> >>And that's about all I've got to say about that.
> >>
> >>Bill Effros
> >>
> >>(95 to Go)
> >>
> >>Slim wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Thank you, Brad.  I like it a lot more when you
> write in your own words
> >>>instead of sending me long and tedious speeches
> to wade through.
> >>>
> >>>With regard to the tyrants, I'll wear the tag
> "cynical" if the government
> >>>will wear the tag "dastardly" or "hypocrite."  I
> don't know if we're doomed
> >>>to repeat the past, but it seems likely.
> >>>
> >>>Whether or not our efforts to democratize the
> region have done any actual
> >>>good is totally speculative at best.  Consider
> the price.  The same for any
> >>>would-be decline had we not intervened.  We just
> don't know.  It depends on
> >>>who's doing the talking.  You pays your money and
> you takes your chances.
> >>>
> >>>On border battles, Poland, Austria, Hungary,
> Czechoslovakia, etc. is hardly
> >>>a fair comparison to Kuwait.  It's not as if
> Saddam was marching across the
> >>>continent.  So, you don't like my definition of
> Fascism and my 
> >>>obvious implication?  OK,
> >>>how do you define Fascism and why doesn't it
> apply to mein furor, Bush with
> >>>the no-bid contract to Halliburton, our
> diminished civil rights and all that
> >>>fear-mongering?
> >>>
> >>>And where the hell is Bill Effros when you need
> him?
> >>>
> >>>Slim
> >>>
> >>>On 11/16/05 8:01 AM, "brad haslett"
> <flybrad at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>Wally, Rummy, et al,
> >>>>
> >>>>What the hell, our Gulfport attorney won't be in
> her
> >>>>office for another hour so why not entertain
> myself
> >>>>with this?
> >>>>
> >>>>Rummy, you accuse me of chest thumping and then
> go on
> >>>>to beat your own.  I can hear it all the way to
> >>>>Tennessee.  Read the rest of your post and get
> back to
> >>>>me on that issue.  Re-read my disclaimer on
> Buchanan.
> 
=== message truncated ===

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