[Rhodes22-list] Horse shit and drinking.

Tue Sep 20 16:40:31 EDT 2005

Bill,

Again, you are misrepresenting what happened here. The Governor of LA turned down the offers of troops from other states. It's interesting you bring up the convention center. That was never part of the plan. The city did it "on the fly" and then seemed surprised that the feds didn't know.

But you know what, I'm tired of the blame game. Blame whoever you chose, but don't misrepresent the facts to achieve your agenda. I think a LOT of people screwed up here. But, you and yours seemed determined that the blame lies in one place, George Bush. Just ain't the way things are.

Herb Parsons

S/V O'Jure
  1976 O'Day 25
  Lake Grapevine, N TX

S/V Reve de Papa
  1971 Coronado 35
  Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast

>>> bill at effros.com 9/20/2005 10:10:49 AM >>>
Herb,

FEMA responsibilities extend far far beyond "sending in troops".  There 
are FEMA disaster response teams all over the country that can be 
immediately deployed anywhere to aid in disasters.  The Federal 
Government can send in Active Army troops to aid in disaster management 
without anyone's permission.  This happens all the time, and is 
happening in Florida, right now.  The troops cannot act as police, but 
they can work with the police to do whatever must be done.  FEMA is 
supposed to coordinate the response, and to determine who has been 
"federalized".

National Guard troops from each state can be used as police on orders 
from the Governor.  National Guard troops from other States can be 
deployed at the request of a governor with Federal approval.  The 
Federal Government failed to provide the paperwork required to deploy 
the National Guard troops from other states who had been offered and 
requested by Governors on the state level.

FEMA had an emergency plan for New Orleans that required it to rescue 
those residents of New Orleans who it was already known would not be 
able to leave the city in the event of a disaster.  The City and State 
had already signed off on the plan.  The City and State implemented 
their parts of the plan -- not well, perhaps, but they did what they 
were supposed to do as part of the FEMA directed response to an 
emergency.  FEMA was still sitting on its hands 5 days later telling the 
world that it didn't even know 15,000 people were in the Convention 
Center because FEMA had failed to evacuate those who were taken to the 
Superdome as part of the FEMA emergency management  plan.

The Insurrection Act?  Posse Comitatus? -- Horse Shit and Drinking

Bill Effros

Herb Parsons wrote:

>"Neither the Federal Government nor FEMA needs the permission of local governments to go into action."
>
>That is just patently untrue. To send in troops against the wishes of the Governor of the state, the President would have to invoke the insurrection act, essentially saying the state was in a state of insurrection because of state government. The President was considering invoking the act, but finally the Governor of the state relented, and allowed troops in. Those are facts. Bill, whether it fits your agenda or not.  
>
>Herb Parsons
>
>S/V O'Jure
>  1976 O'Day 25
>  Lake Grapevine, N TX
>
>S/V Reve de Papa
>  1971 Coronado 35
>  Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>
>  
>
>>>>bill at effros.com 9/20/2005 9:15:15 AM >>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>Hank,
>
>In fact, the part about 9/11 was not cut and pasted from anywhere.  I 
>wrote it.  And thank you, I do consider myself a good source.
>
>I am not absolving anyone of anything, I am only asking people to get 
>their facts right.  My facts are right about Katrina, too.
>
>Neither the Federal Government nor FEMA needs the permission of local 
>governments to go into action.  People went to the Superdome because 
>that was part of the FEMA plan.  It was FEMA's responsibility to take 
>care of them inside the Superdome, and to evacuate them, as part of the 
>Federal Emergency Management Agency's mandate.  (I believe we spend 
>about $5 billion a year on FEMA--this is what it is supposed to do.)
>
>I travel all over this country, and I fit in well everywhere.  Don't 
>turn George Bush's failed policies into a personal attack on me.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>Hank wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Bill,
>>Your part about 9/11 was obviously cut and pasted from a good source. The 
>>rest of it is political diatribe aimed at putting the entire blame on the 
>>Federal Gov't. You've effectively absolved the state and local gov't in your 
>>opinion piece and it is obvious that your comments are overwhelmingly 
>>affected by your hatred for the federal gov't and George Bush. You should 
>>consider moving to Idaho, you'd fit in well there.
>>Hank
>>
>>On 9/20/05, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote: 
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Herb,
>>>
>>>In early 2001 FEMA identified the 3 most catastrophic situations it
>>>might some day have to address. They were:
>>>
>>>1. A terrorist attack on NYC.
>>>2. A major earthquake in San Francisco.
>>>3. A levee break in New Orleans.
>>>
>>>On September 11, 2001, 37 minutes after the take-off of the first
>>>hijacked airplane, the FAA requested that military aircraft scramble to
>>>help deal with the known hijacking. Within 9 minutes there were
>>>military aircraft in the sky. 4 minutes later, the military received
>>>notice that the airplane they were trying to find had just hit the World
>>>Trade Center. The President of the United States, on his way to a
>>>"Photo Op" in a school in Florida, was immediately informed. He told
>>>reporters before entering the school that he was aware of the fact that
>>>a plane had smashed into the World Trade Center. 3 minutes later the
>>>FAA determined that a second aircraft had been hijacked, and immediately
>>>the FAA began contacting and diverting airplanes. 7 minutes later a
>>>different FAA flight controller called a different military installation
>>>to request help. A minute later, another FAA flight controller, in yet
>>>another part of the country called another military unit to request
>>>aircraft be scrambled. None of these flight controllers knew that the
>>>others had acted. The military did not know that it had received
>>>multiple requests. 8 minutes later there were multiple military fighter
>>>jets over Long Island. 5 minutes later the fighters were moved over
>>>Manhattan. A minute later jets were scrambled from Langly AFB in
>>>Virginia and sent up to NYC because the fighters over NYC were running
>>>low on fuel. 8 minutes later the FAA closed all NYC airports. 4
>>>minutes later the Port Authority of NYC closed all bridges and tunnels.
>>>1 minute later the FAA told Dulles air controllers to watch for incoming
>>>hijacked aircraft. 4 minutes later the military established a combat
>>>air patrol over Manhattan, and, at the same time, the FAA grounded all
>>>aircraft all over the country. 5 minutes later, the President of the
>>>United States went on National TV to announce that the country had
>>>suffered "an apparent terrorist attack". 15 minutes later the White
>>>House was evacuated. 12 minutes later the President left Florida for an
>>>Air Force Base in Louisiana. 9 minutes later the South Tower of the
>>>World Trade Center collapsed. 5 minutes later part of the Pentagon
>>>collapsed. 9 minutes later the UN building was evacuated. 15 minutes
>>>later the North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. 17 minutes
>>>later all Federal buildings in Washington DC were evacuated. 7 minutes
>>>later, all DC area airports were closed. 10 minutes later the Mayor of
>>>NYC ordered the evacuation of everyone south of the World Trade Center.
>>>2 hours and 2 minutes later, the President of the United States,
>>>speaking from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana, said the US military has been
>>>put on high alert world wide. 44 minutes later the President of the
>>>United States flew to an Air Force base in Nebraska. 4 hours and 53
>>>minutes later, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld announced that the Pentagon
>>>had re-opened and was conducting business. 13 minutes later the
>>>President returned to the White House from Omaha, Nebraska. By this
>>>time, FEMA was on the ground, inside both New York City and Washington
>>>DC coordinating the nation's response to the disaster.
>>>
>>>Now let's compare that response to the Federal Government's response to
>>>Hurricane Katrina.
>>>
>>>On Friday, August 26 the State of Louisiana declared a state of
>>>emergency because it was clear that hurricane Katrina was going to
>>>strike somewhere on the Louisiana coast. FEMA was automatically notified.
>>>
>>>On Saturday, August 27, FEMA took no action to mitigate what was sure to
>>>be a major disaster somewhere on the Gulf Coast.
>>>
>>>On Sunday, August 28, the National Weather Service posted this warning
>>>under the headline :
>>>
>>>''Hurricane Katrina. A most powerful hurricane with unprecedented
>>>strength.".
>>>
>>>"Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps
>>>longer...Power outages will last for weeks...Water shortages will make
>>>human suffering incredible by modern standards.''
>>>
>>>The warning had been written years earlier. Only the name of the
>>>hurricane was inserted at the last minute. There was no question that
>>>the hurricane would strike somewhere along the Gulf Coast of the United
>>>States, resulting in massive loss of life.
>>>
>>>The President of the United States immediately issued a declaration of
>>>emergency for the Gulf Coast region. He also found time to cut a cake
>>>for John McCain, play a guitar for Mark Wills, deliver an address about
>>>V-J day, and stay at his ranch to continue his vacation.
>>>
>>>The Mayor of New Orleans issued a mandatory evacuation order for the
>>>entire city.
>>>
>>>On Monday, August 29, the hurricane hit, at 6:10 am narrowly missing New
>>>Orleans, but flattening several cities to the East. The loss of life in
>>>one small town in Mississippi was immediately known to be greater than
>>>the total loss of life resulting from 3 hurricanes that hit Florida the
>>>previous year which resulted in a massive and immediate federal disaster
>>>relief response just prior to a Presidential election in a state with 25
>>>electoral votes.
>>>
>>>10,000 people who were unable to leave New Orleans were already being
>>>sheltered in the Superdome as part of the emergency evacuation procedure
>>>devised by disaster mitigation experts from FEMA. It was known that
>>>they had no food or water, and that it was the responsibility of FEMA to
>>>provide everything they would need to safely evacuate the victims.
>>>
>>>The President remained on vacation. The head of FEMA went to Baton
>>>Rouge. The Vice President remained on vacation. The Head of Homeland
>>>security remained on vacation. The Secretary of State remained on
>>>vacation. Congress remained on vacation.
>>>
>>>Local officials on the ground knew that their resources had been
>>>overwhelmed, and they knew they needed massive and immediate Federal
>>>assistance. Federal aid was the primary component of disaster response
>>>to a tragedy of this magnitude. But the Federal Government simply was
>>>not answering the phone. They were on vacation, and too busy.
>>>
>>>Then the levee broke in New Orleans.
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Actually Rummy, I don't live in another country, nor am I basing what I 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>say on watching "the news much". I spoke personally with the commander on 
>>>duty at the Coast Guard staging area in Alexandria. He had the resources in 
>>>place, waiting in Alexandria. He was waiting for permission FROM THE STATE 
>>>to send them in. The STATE chose to have their resources in place, namely 
>>>the Louisiana Fish and Wildlife Department (yep, that's right Governor 
>>>Blanco chose to put her state's game wardens in charge of recovery, instead 
>>>of the feds, who are trained to do that.)
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I was there friend, I saw it first hand. I saw the news cameras on site 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>at the barricades, in their air conditioned portables studios. On the other 
>>>hand, out in the streets, there were a few print media folks, but very few. 
>>>The only video crew I saw "out in the field" was with the Air National 
>>>Guard. The rest of the folks didn't want to stray far from their portable 
>>>studios. And, in spite of your absolute belief that it was the news media 
>>>that brought about change is as misguided and misinformed as the rest of the 
>>>nonsense you seem to be subscribing to.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>But, that wasn't the point of what I was saying at all. My point was 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>folks can stand around pointing fingers at others all they want, but that 
>>>gets NOTHING done. Before anyone complains about what someone else did or 
>>>did not do, they should ask themselves what THEY did.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I view the governments role to fill in where the individuals can't (I 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>can't personally build a highway, or field an army), but that does NOT 
>>>relieve the individual of their duty when the need arises. I went to NO 
>>>because I couldn't be me and NOT go. My boss instructed me to stop thanking 
>>>him for letting me take off, that he did so because it's what he had to do. 
>>>My wife and children told me to stop apologizing for missing my wife's 50 
>>>birthday party, that they missed me, but that what I was doing was more 
>>>important.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Everywhere I went, and this isn't hearing it from a television reporter 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>looking for ratings, or an ex-first lady trying to position herself for the 
>>>next presidential vacancy, EVERYWHERE I went, I saw people first hand doing 
>>>what they could do; whether it was giving me some gas cans so we can put gas 
>>>in our DUKW, or handing a baby to our crew on the boat.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>THAT my friend, is what "we" are. We AREN'T the whimpering whining media, 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>or the jostling politicians looking to gain ratings numbers on the Neilson 
>>>or the latest poll on the backs of those that lost everything.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Oh, and for whatever it's worth, I'm still getting in boat time too. Mast 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>going up got delayed by a few days because of the trip, but it went up 
>>>today. It had to, our sail club is taking a group of handicapped kids out 
>>>sailing this weekend, and I committed and need to be ready.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>THAT's the country I live in, since you asked.
>>>>
>>>>Now, go have your drink, and watch your game.
>>>>
>>>>Herb Parsons
>>>>
>>>>S/V O'Jure
>>>>1976 O'Day 25
>>>>Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>
>>>>S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>1971 Coronado 35
>>>>Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>R22RumRunner at aol.com 9/19/2005 8:54:09 PM >>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>Herb,
>>>>You either live in a different country or don't watch the news much. Our
>>>>gov't sat on their collective hands and did nothing for the people of NO 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>for
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>five, yes count them, five days. And then it was only after the news 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>media made
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>them look as stupid as they collectively are that they decided to finally 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>do
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>something.
>>>>The governments own weather person said this was going to be a 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>devastating
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>storm 24 hours before it struck. It certainly had time to react, but no, 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>those
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>idiots in FEMA (not trained in emergency management) didn't know what to 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>do.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Hell, I could go on and on and rehash the same shit, but I won't. There's
>>>>more important things to attend to tonight, like watching football and 
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>drinking.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Remember, a shot in the glass is better than one in the ass.
>>>>
>>>>Rummy
>>>>__________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
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>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>    
>>
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