[Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Sat Sep 24 10:56:16 EDT 2005
Wally,
I agree with you. Ms. Anderson does not speak for me. I was just
reporting the news, because it seemed to be in agreement with your position.
I have read accounts since Sept. 1 that the levees that broke were no
where near their high water mark, that they had not been over-topped,
that it was known that they had broken because contract specifications
were not met, and that they were never hit by the category 4 storm. A
category 4 storm hit elsewhere, New Orleans got a category 3 or less,
and the levees should have held.
I am in no position to judge the validity of these accounts, but I have
read nothing refuting them.
Bill Effros
Wally Buck wrote:
> Bill,
>
> If you are saying that local governments have a good plan, Julie
> Anderson should have left sooner, taken a different route, and quit
> complaining then you agreed with me. I guess it depends on who Ms.
> Anderson is calling "we".
>
> Sometimes I wonder how smart we really are. Without velvet ropes some
> wouldn't even know how to line up in a bank. :-)
>
> You said the levees in NO were built incorrectly. Why do you make this
> claim? The levees actually performed up to the limits of their design.
> No one said they would stand up to surge of Cat 4.
>
> Wally ......heading to the lake!
>
>
>> From: Rik Sandberg <sanderico at earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: sanderico at earthlink.net,The Rhodes 22 mail list
>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:23:47 -0500
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> It'll be interesting to see if Wally thinks I disagreed with him.
>>
>> I wonder, just how wide do we have to build a freeway just incase we
>> might have one major hurricane in in 20 or 30 years?
>>
>> Probably right about the proportions of horseshit vs drinking. :-)
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>>> Rik,
>>>
>>> Wally said the government didn't learn because it's evacuation plans
>>> hadn't been changed, but that he thought people would evacuate
>>> sooner in the face of Rita, because citizens had learned.
>>>
>>> Initially I took the other position, but then I saw the AP story,
>>> and said maybe I was wrong.
>>>
>>> As I understand what you have said, you are the one who is
>>> disagreeing with Wally.
>>>
>>> Now, I'm sure Rummy will soon note that we seem to have our
>>> proportions of horse shit and drinking reversed.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> You've got a pretty darn strange way of "agreeing"
>>>>
>>>>> "This is the worst planning I've ever seen," said Judie Anderson,
>>>>> who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting out from her
>>>>> home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. "They say we've learned a
>>>>> lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn't prove it by me."
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm with Wally. Didn't seem like "agreement" to me either.
>>>>
>>>> The gov't may have learned from Katrina, BUT it seems the people
>>>> didn't. They all act like a herd of cattle all trying to squeeze
>>>> through the barn door at the same time. Do any of them own a map?
>>>> have they never thought that there are state highways and county
>>>> and even township roads that go the same direction they want to go?
>>>> No, a million of them just mindlessly head for the freeway and
>>>> can't understand why there is a traffic problem.
>>>>
>>>> All this reliance on the gov't is turning people into a bunch of
>>>> mindless idiots.
>>>>
>>>> OH MY GOD .... there I go .... blaming the victims again.
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was agreeing with you. You made a point. I said I thought you
>>>>> were wrong. Then I saw this story. Then I said maybe you were
>>>>> right. Now you say I don't seem to understand....
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess Julie Anderson hasn't learn much as well. There are
>>>>>> always traffic jams when they evacuate large cities. The larger
>>>>>> the population the bigger the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She is 45 miles away from Houston, the storm isn't due until
>>>>>> tomorrow. Shut up and keep driving. It sounds like she will be
>>>>>> safe. She is whining already and not a drop of rain. This just
>>>>>> goes to show how difficult the task is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There will always be problems with an evacuation of this size.
>>>>>> You don't seem to understand this. Nothing iis perfect. People
>>>>>> are free to leave when ever they want. You don't have to wait
>>>>>> for a government order.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:59 -0400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe you were right. This from the Associated Press:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "This is the worst planning I've ever seen," said Judie
>>>>>>> Anderson, who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting
>>>>>>> out from her home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. "They say
>>>>>>> we've learned a lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn't
>>>>>>> prove it by me."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I heard the mayors of Gavelston and Houston interviewed last
>>>>>>>> night. They were asked what changes they made to evac plan post
>>>>>>>> Katrina. The said basically none. They have spent years
>>>>>>>> educating the public about the dangers of hurricanes. They
>>>>>>>> talked about how hard they had trained for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the real lessons learned were from the citizens. I have
>>>>>>>> a fealing people will take these storms more serioulsy in the
>>>>>>>> future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] P-Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:48:22 -0400
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did not mean to berate Herb, and I do understand how my
>>>>>>>>> comments could have been taken that way, and for that I
>>>>>>>>> apologize to Herb, and to the rest of the list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What I was trying to say was that people on the scene can tell
>>>>>>>>> us what they see, but that those first hand accounts should
>>>>>>>>> not be confused with expertise about obscure laws that do not
>>>>>>>>> apply, or a special knowledge of the sequence of events which
>>>>>>>>> the observer did not see.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Blind Men and the Elephant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not blaming anyone for anything, except those who yell
>>>>>>>>> "Blame Game" over and over to obscure the facts, and then
>>>>>>>>> start flooding the Internet with completely false
>>>>>>>>> information. In my view that is dangerous, and someone must
>>>>>>>>> speak out against it. General Honore has done so, and I
>>>>>>>>> applaud him for it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The current situation with Rita is exactly the same as the
>>>>>>>>> situation with Katrina was, this many days before the
>>>>>>>>> hurricane hit. FEMA is in action. Local governments are
>>>>>>>>> doing their best. Pre-determined evacuation plans are being
>>>>>>>>> implemented on the local, state and federal levels. Things
>>>>>>>>> have been learned in the intervening 3 weeks, they are being
>>>>>>>>> applied, and we will surely have less loss of life this time
>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And that is the reason it is so important to get the facts
>>>>>>>>> right, from the get-go, and not be lulled by a President who
>>>>>>>>> says, wrongly, again and again, "There is plenty of time for
>>>>>>>>> us to figure out what went wrong..." Well, there wasn't
>>>>>>>>> plenty of time to figure out what went wrong, and luckily many
>>>>>>>>> people started trying to figure it out and do something about
>>>>>>>>> it immediately..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wally Buck wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Herb provided us a first hand account of what he witnessed.
>>>>>>>>>> The man has been through hell and has still taken the time to
>>>>>>>>>> help. Why are you berating him? He never claimed he was an
>>>>>>>>>> expert.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must admit I have to chuckly every time I see Busch on TV.
>>>>>>>>>> I think the guy is a clown. However he did not cause this.
>>>>>>>>>> Not to make light but in some ways the less hands on .....the
>>>>>>>>>> less he will screw up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It seems obvious that there wasn't a sound evacuation plan.
>>>>>>>>>> This is a local issue not federal. If we focus on seeking
>>>>>>>>>> blame this will happen again. If we focus on how local
>>>>>>>>>> governments can better prepare for these type emergencies the
>>>>>>>>>> citizens will be better off. If there were protocol issues
>>>>>>>>>> fix them. Blaming Bush solves nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Horse shit and drinking.
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:47:12 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Driving a boat through muck does not qualify you as a
>>>>>>>>>>> jurisdictional expert in Federal Emergency Management. What
>>>>>>>>>>> you heard from people in the water, that they did what they
>>>>>>>>>>> were supposed to do, is correct. However, FEMA must
>>>>>>>>>>> coordinate the response to emergencies. That is its
>>>>>>>>>>> mandate. They don't need to get permission from anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> else--that's their job when emergencies occur.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> FEMA was like a deer in the headlights. First responders
>>>>>>>>>>> were turned away by FEMA officials in New Orleans. This did
>>>>>>>>>>> not happen in New York. I think we all agree that the heads
>>>>>>>>>>> of FEMA were incompetent political cronies. They will be
>>>>>>>>>>> gone. However, their superiors in the Federal Government
>>>>>>>>>>> did not take this matter seriously enough to interrupt what
>>>>>>>>>>> they were doing to oversee what was obviously a disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just like local officials in New York, the local officials
>>>>>>>>>>> in New Orleans did their best and screwed up. We lost 100s
>>>>>>>>>>> of first responders here in NYC due to the incompetence of
>>>>>>>>>>> our local politicians. But we saved thousands due to the
>>>>>>>>>>> prompt, if not always correct, actions of the Federal
>>>>>>>>>>> Government.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Federal Government was on vacation this August, but,
>>>>>>>>>>> unlike you, the individuals in positions of responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>> did not take time off from their vacations to deal with an
>>>>>>>>>>> emergency while it was happening.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is part of a trend that has been noted often before.
>>>>>>>>>>> Let me point out, yet again, that on August 6, 2001
>>>>>>>>>>> President Bush received a memo from the CIA, while
>>>>>>>>>>> vacationing on his ranch, entitled: "Bin Laden Determined to
>>>>>>>>>>> Strike in US". The President did not interrupt his vacation
>>>>>>>>>>> for that one, either.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You're leaving out one major factor in the comparison. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> FAA has jurisdiction over flights. The Mayor of New Orleans
>>>>>>>>>>>> has jurisdiction over the city, the Governor over the state
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Louisiana. I'm going to repeat this, from what I heard
>>>>>>>>>>>> at the scene, the Coast Guard in Alexandria was ready
>>>>>>>>>>>> BEFORE the storm hit. Their services were offered to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> state, the state declined, putting their game wardens in
>>>>>>>>>>>> charge. Once the feds were released to act, they acted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a popular misconception for folks to talk about "not
>>>>>>>>>>>> answering the phone" when the President is on "vacation."
>>>>>>>>>>>> He has a phone when he's on vacation. He has an office when
>>>>>>>>>>>> he's on vacation. It's that type of hyperbole that
>>>>>>>>>>>> diminishes credibility for those that employ it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I was on "vacation" when I was in New Orleans. I've
>>>>>>>>>>>> got the pay stubs to prove it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V O'Jure
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1976 O'Day 25
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1971 Coronado 35
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill at effros.com 9/20/2005 8:09:56 AM >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In early 2001 FEMA identified the 3 most catastrophic
>>>>>>>>>>>> situations it might some day have to address. They were:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. A terrorist attack on NYC.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. A major earthquake in San Francisco.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. A levee break in New Orleans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On September 11, 2001, 37 minutes after the take-off of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> first hijacked airplane, the FAA requested that military
>>>>>>>>>>>> aircraft scramble to help deal with the known hijacking.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Within 9 minutes there were military aircraft in the sky.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 minutes later, the military received notice that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> airplane they were trying to find had just hit the World
>>>>>>>>>>>> Trade Center. The President of the United States, on his
>>>>>>>>>>>> way to a "Photo Op" in a school in Florida, was immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>> informed. He told reporters before entering the school
>>>>>>>>>>>> that he was aware of the fact that a plane had smashed into
>>>>>>>>>>>> the World Trade Center. 3 minutes later the FAA determined
>>>>>>>>>>>> that a second aircraft had been hijacked, and immediately
>>>>>>>>>>>> the FAA began contacting and diverting airplanes. 7
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later a different FAA flight controller called a
>>>>>>>>>>>> different military installation to request help. A minute
>>>>>>>>>>>> later, another FAA flight controller, in yet another part
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the country called another military unit to request
>>>>>>>>>>>> aircraft be scrambled. None of these flight controllers
>>>>>>>>>>>> knew that the others had acted. The military did not know
>>>>>>>>>>>> that it had received multiple requests. 8 minutes later
>>>>>>>>>>>> there were multiple military fighter jets over Long Island.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 minutes later the fighters were moved over Manhattan. A
>>>>>>>>>>>> minute later jets were scrambled from Langly AFB in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Virginia and sent up to NYC because the fighters over NYC
>>>>>>>>>>>> were running low on fuel. 8 minutes later the FAA closed
>>>>>>>>>>>> all NYC airports. 4 minutes later the Port Authority of
>>>>>>>>>>>> NYC closed all bridges and tunnels. 1 minute later the FAA
>>>>>>>>>>>> told Dulles air controllers to watch for incoming hijacked
>>>>>>>>>>>> aircraft. 4 minutes later the military established a
>>>>>>>>>>>> combat air patrol over Manhattan, and, at the same time,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the FAA grounded all aircraft all over the country. 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later, the President of the United States went on
>>>>>>>>>>>> National TV to announce that the country had suffered "an
>>>>>>>>>>>> apparent terrorist attack". 15 minutes later the White
>>>>>>>>>>>> House was evacuated. 12 minutes later the President left
>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida for an Air Force Base in Louisiana. 9 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>> later the South Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 minutes later part of the Pentagon collapsed. 9 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>> later the UN building was evacuated. 15 minutes later the
>>>>>>>>>>>> North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. 17
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later all Federal buildings in Washington DC were
>>>>>>>>>>>> evacuated. 7 minutes later, all DC area airports were
>>>>>>>>>>>> closed. 10 minutes later the Mayor of NYC ordered the
>>>>>>>>>>>> evacuation of everyone south of the World Trade Center. 2
>>>>>>>>>>>> hours and 2 minutes later, the President of the United
>>>>>>>>>>>> States, speaking from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana, said the
>>>>>>>>>>>> US military has been put on high alert world wide. 44
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes later the President of the United States flew to an
>>>>>>>>>>>> Air Force base in Nebraska. 4 hours and 53 minutes later,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Defense Secretary Rumsfeld announced that the Pentagon had
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-opened and was conducting business. 13 minutes later
>>>>>>>>>>>> the President returned to the White House from Omaha,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nebraska. By this time, FEMA was on the ground, inside
>>>>>>>>>>>> both New York City and Washington DC coordinating the
>>>>>>>>>>>> nation's response to the disaster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now let's compare that response to the Federal Government's
>>>>>>>>>>>> response to Hurricane Katrina.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, August 26 the State of Louisiana declared a
>>>>>>>>>>>> state of emergency because it was clear that hurricane
>>>>>>>>>>>> Katrina was going to strike somewhere on the Louisiana
>>>>>>>>>>>> coast. FEMA was automatically notified.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, August 27, FEMA took no action to mitigate
>>>>>>>>>>>> what was sure to be a major disaster somewhere on the Gulf
>>>>>>>>>>>> Coast.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 28, the National Weather Service posted
>>>>>>>>>>>> this warning under the headline :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ''Hurricane Katrina. A most powerful hurricane with
>>>>>>>>>>>> unprecedented strength.".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> longer...Power outages will last for weeks...Water
>>>>>>>>>>>> shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern
>>>>>>>>>>>> standards.''
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The warning had been written years earlier. Only the name
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the hurricane was inserted at the last minute. There
>>>>>>>>>>>> was no question that the hurricane would strike somewhere
>>>>>>>>>>>> along the Gulf Coast of the United States, resulting in
>>>>>>>>>>>> massive loss of life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The President of the United States immediately issued a
>>>>>>>>>>>> declaration of emergency for the Gulf Coast region. He
>>>>>>>>>>>> also found time to cut a cake for John McCain, play a
>>>>>>>>>>>> guitar for Mark Wills, deliver an address about V-J day,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and stay at his ranch to continue his vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Mayor of New Orleans issued a mandatory evacuation
>>>>>>>>>>>> order for the entire city.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, August 29, the hurricane hit, at 6:10 am
>>>>>>>>>>>> narrowly missing New Orleans, but flattening several cities
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the East. The loss of life in one small town in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mississippi was immediately known to be greater than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> total loss of life resulting from 3 hurricanes that hit
>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida the previous year which resulted in a massive and
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediate federal disaster relief response just prior to a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Presidential election in a state with 25 electoral votes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10,000 people who were unable to leave New Orleans were
>>>>>>>>>>>> already being sheltered in the Superdome as part of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> emergency evacuation procedure devised by disaster
>>>>>>>>>>>> mitigation experts from FEMA. It was known that they had
>>>>>>>>>>>> no food or water, and that it was the responsibility of
>>>>>>>>>>>> FEMA to provide everything they would need to safely
>>>>>>>>>>>> evacuate the victims.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The President remained on vacation. The head of FEMA went
>>>>>>>>>>>> to Baton Rouge. The Vice President remained on vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Head of Homeland security remained on vacation. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> Secretary of State remained on vacation. Congress remained
>>>>>>>>>>>> on vacation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Local officials on the ground knew that their resources had
>>>>>>>>>>>> been overwhelmed, and they knew they needed massive and
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediate Federal assistance. Federal aid was the primary
>>>>>>>>>>>> component of disaster response to a tragedy of this
>>>>>>>>>>>> magnitude. But the Federal Government simply was not
>>>>>>>>>>>> answering the phone. They were on vacation, and too busy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then the levee broke in New Orleans.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually Rummy, I don't live in another country, nor am I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> basing what I say on watching "the news much". I spoke
>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally with the commander on duty at the Coast Guard
>>>>>>>>>>>>> staging area in Alexandria. He had the resources in place,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting in Alexandria. He was waiting for permission FROM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE STATE to send them in. The STATE chose to have their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources in place, namely the Louisiana Fish and Wildlife
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Department (yep, that's right Governor Blanco chose to put
>>>>>>>>>>>>> her state's game wardens in charge of recovery, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the feds, who are trained to do that.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was there friend, I saw it first hand. I saw the news
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cameras on site at the barricades, in their air
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditioned portables studios. On the other hand, out in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the streets, there were a few print media folks, but very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> few. The only video crew I saw "out in the field" was with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Air National Guard. The rest of the folks didn't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stray far from their portable studios. And, in spite of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your absolute belief that it was the news media that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought about change is as misguided and misinformed as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the nonsense you seem to be subscribing to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, that wasn't the point of what I was saying at all. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point was folks can stand around pointing fingers at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> others all they want, but that gets NOTHING done. Before
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone complains about what someone else did or did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do, they should ask themselves what THEY did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I view the governments role to fill in where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals can't (I can't personally build a highway, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> field an army), but that does NOT relieve the individual
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of their duty when the need arises. I went to NO because I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't be me and NOT go. My boss instructed me to stop
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanking him for letting me take off, that he did so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it's what he had to do. My wife and children told
>>>>>>>>>>>>> me to stop apologizing for missing my wife's 50 birthday
>>>>>>>>>>>>> party, that they missed me, but that what I was doing was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more important.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everywhere I went, and this isn't hearing it from a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> television reporter looking for ratings, or an ex-first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lady trying to position herself for the next presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vacancy, EVERYWHERE I went, I saw people first hand doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what they could do; whether it was giving me some gas cans
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we can put gas in our DUKW, or handing a baby to our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crew on the boat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT my friend, is what "we" are. We AREN'T the whimpering
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whining media, or the jostling politicians looking to gain
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ratings numbers on the Neilson or the latest poll on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> backs of those that lost everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, and for whatever it's worth, I'm still getting in boat
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time too. Mast going up got delayed by a few days because
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the trip, but it went up today. It had to, our sail
>>>>>>>>>>>>> club is taking a group of handicapped kids out sailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this weekend, and I committed and need to be ready.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT's the country I live in, since you asked.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, go have your drink, and watch your game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V O'Jure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1976 O'Day 25
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1971 Coronado 35
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R22RumRunner at aol.com 9/19/2005 8:54:09 PM >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You either live in a different country or don't watch the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news much. Our gov't sat on their collective hands and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did nothing for the people of NO for five, yes count
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them, five days. And then it was only after the news media
>>>>>>>>>>>>> made them look as stupid as they collectively are that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they decided to finally do something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The governments own weather person said this was going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a devastating storm 24 hours before it struck. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly had time to react, but no, those idiots in FEMA
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (not trained in emergency management) didn't know what to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. Hell, I could go on and on and rehash the same shit,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I won't. There's more important things to attend to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tonight, like watching football and drinking. Remember, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shot in the glass is better than one in the ass.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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