[Rhodes22-list] CB Cleat - strong, permanent fix in blind space

Slim salm at mn.rr.com
Sun Aug 20 03:18:21 EDT 2006 

Hank,

Yes, we thought of inserts too but the ones I have on hand in my shop were
all too big and I didn't feel like taking an extra trip to the hardware
store for some tiny ones.  In fact I've never seen ones that small--not sure
they're available.  These are very small screws and like I told Rummy, this
thing is underbuilt.  We even considered butterfly anchors which do come in
sizes small enough but you have to drill a pretty big hole to get them in
and they might interfere with each other they're so close.

BTW, back in the olden days I used to buy inserts that we called AJs.
So-called for the manufacturer, Ackerman/Johnson.  They were made of lead.
Haven't seen them for years.

Slim

On 8/19/06 10:33 PM, "Hank" <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Slim,
> 
> Mike is talking about putting inserts into the hull first and then threading
> the screws through the cleat and into the inserts.  You could still use the
> same size screws provided the insert was sized correctly.
> 
> Hank
> 
> On 8/19/06, Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mike,
>> 
>> Yes, we thought of that too but then I'd have to use a larger cleat
>> because
>> the cleat's holes for the screws are only so big.  And I HAVE a larger
>> cleat
>> that I considered but it seemed oversized and I nixed it.
>> 
>> Slim
>> 
>> On 8/19/06 8:43 PM, "Michael D. Weisner" <mweisner at ebsmed.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Slim,
>>> 
>>> One point: Rather than redrill for the original screws, do you think
>> that
>>> you might be better off using threaded inserts of a larger diameter than
>> the
>>> originals and thread the screws into the inserts?  I have found that the
>>> greater surface area of the larger hole gives the insert much better
>> bite
>>> into the material (epoxy).  Smaller diameter equals smaller surface area
>>> equals greater likelihood of stripping out threads.  Just my $0.02.
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: "Slim" <salm at mn.rr.com>
>>> I went out to the boat this afternoon and here's the story.  First,
>> there is
>>> no way to access the hollow place under the cleat to hold a block of
>> wood or
>>> washers and nuts or anything like that so it's confirmed, like Rummy
>> said,
>>> this is a top side job.  I agree that Robert's fix is no doubt the best
>> but
>>> I decided to try something simpler first.  I used West System two-part
>> epoxy
>>> and added a liberal amount of filler making it almost like bread dough.
>>> Then I took a little trawl and smooshed it into both holes thinking it
>> would
>>> make a sort of pimple under the hole.  Then I added a layer of it above
>> the
>>> holes adding bulk.  I think when I redrill the holes I'll have at least
>>> 3/16" thickness--maybe more.  With the pimple I might get another 1/4".
>> I'm
>>> hoping that'll be enough for the screws to bite on.  I also found a pair
>> of
>>> screws with a little coarser thread.  Do you think I should 5200 the
>> whole
>>> bottom of the cleat when I install it?  That is, using the 5200 as calk.
>>> This should hold for at least the rest of the season.  If it breaks out
>>> again, then I'll try the more major root canal method that Robert
>> suggests.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for all the input.
>>> 
>>> Slim
>>> 
>>> On 8/19/06 2:49 PM, "Robert Skinner" <robert at squirrelhaven.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Slim, I'm not sure of the exact situation that you describe,
>>>> but the following is a generic fix that you can adapt to
>>>> your circumstances.
>>>> 
>>>> The attached drawings show one method of dealing with a cleat
>>>> whose screws have pulled out of a fiberglass surface where the
>>>> open space under that surface is not easily accessible.
>>>> 
>>>> Drawing 1 shows the initial situation.  The cleat screws have
>>>> pulled out of the fiberglass, leaving two ragged holes.
>>>> 
>>>> Drawing 2 shows the preparation for the fix.  An oblong hole
>>>> has been cut in the fiberglass and the edges have been
>>>> beveled to improve adherence of a epoxy-fiberglass patch to
>>>> be applied later.  The edge of the hole is at least 1/2" and
>>>> optimally 1" away from the former screw holes.
>>>> 
>>>> Drawing 3 shows the marine plywood reinforcing block being
>>>> inserted thru the hole into the blind space.  Note that there
>>>> is a hole in the middle and a piece of small stuff is used to
>>>> control it.  The string will be used later to hold the block
>>>> in place while sealant sets up.
>>>> 
>>>> Drawing 4 shows the block being adhered in place, held up by
>>>> the string.  Any adhesive could be used, but I prefer 3M 5200.
>>>> 
>>>> Drawing 5 shows the epoxy-and-fiber filler in place, ready to
>>>> be sanded down and finish-coated (gel-coat, paint or epoxy).
>>>> 
>>>> Drawing 6 shows the finished repair with the cleat in place.
>>>> 
>>>> /Robert Skinner         Coordinates N43° 41.330', W70° 24.889'
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Slim wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rummy,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Last time I squirted some two-part epoxy into and across the holes,
>>>>> redrilled and screwed it all back in.  It lasted less than a year and
>> has
>>>>> now stripped out again.  It's a thin layer of glass and hollow
>>> underneath.
>>>>> There's nothing substantial for the goop to adhere to and no bulk for
>> the
>>>>> screws to bite on.
>>>> 
>>>> Name: Patch-1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 45819 bytes Desc: not
>> available
>>>> Url:
>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200608/19/Patch-1.jpg
>>>> 
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>> available
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>> available
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>>>> 
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>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200608/19/Patch-4.jpg
>>>> 
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>> available
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>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200608/19/Patch-5.jpg
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>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200608/19/Patch-6.jpg
>>>> 
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