[Rhodes22-list] New Design BR

[David Bradley]

Art, you make some good points.

Stan's belief was that the waterproof spray is readily accessible.  Other
than that, I won't try to speak for Stan -- having already relayed his
thoughts based on one discussion with him in Edenton.  I think his bigger
challenge is the frame design anyway.

It does seem like we should look at a Sunbrella roof panel in comparison to
Dacron.  Have you ever compared prices?  And it is true, isn't it, that
where Dacron comes in frequent contact with a hard surface it creates a weak
point in the fabric?  As in sails on spreaders?

The side panels should probably be lighter and could get by with less water
resistance (other than the rear panel) -- what would you use for the sides?
Have you compared sailcloth to ripstop nylon?  Would you consider Sunbrella
on the sides?

I agree totally that a few bucks more for durability and reliability are
well worth it.

Bill E., do you think we're ready to zero in on a prototype spec?

Dave B.







On 2/9/06, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> You are patient, and thanks for your reply.  A few questions you may be
> able to answer...
>
> What type and weight of sailcloth would be best suitable for this
> application?  Sails are made without a concern or need for water resistance,
> in fact are not water resistant.  The lighter cloth is less able in this
> type of use and the heavier is harder to manage, store, and less flexible
> (more difficult to install/uninstall).  Vendors of sailcloth I have spoken
> with vis-a-vis a cockpit cover have told me they would clearly prefer
> sunbrella versus sailcloth for rain protection.  I would not want to
> discover that I need to apply treatment to my cover while in the midst of a
> heavy downpour in the middle of the night.  I have seen some nasty
> unexpected storms like this.  What is the treatment, and how available is it
> to the public?
>
> Sailcloth is vulnerable to UV deterioration, the vendors tell me that in a
> stretched configuration (to prevent pooling or weeping) the UV exposed cloth
> would become fragile in about a year, more prone to rip and more often in
> need of replacement.  As a user I am concerned about durability.
>
> I am searching for the most nearly 'bulletproof' option, and can't see the
> value of a few bucks, or a few ounces, per yard saved if it results in an
> obvious compromise of any type.  Does that make sense to you?
>
> Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Feb 9, 2006 7:35 AM
> >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Design BR
> >
> >Art, if I recall the discussion correctly, Stan's main reasons for
> favoring
> >Dacron sail cloth over Sunbrella were lower weight and lower expense.  He
> >felt that spraying the material to be waterproof is not a big deal.
> >
> >Dave B.
> >
> >
> >On 2/8/06, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Wally,
> >> True, I understand 5 year timeframe, I would likely then replace.  Do
> you
> >> think sailcloth would not need treatment before this.  I am curious
> why,
> >> except maybe cost, could Sunbrella be less attractive?  Thanks for your
> >> input, as I may try sailcloth if that good an option.
> >> Art
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
> >> >Sent: Feb 8, 2006 11:55 AM
> >> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Design BR
> >> >
> >> >Art,
> >> >
> >> >Sunbrella is a great product but it also has to be treated as it ages.
> >> >
> >> >Wally
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
> >> >>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Design BR
> >> >>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:17:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
> >> >>
> >> >>Slim,
> >> >>
> >> >>Like you say, different strokes for different folks.  If someone
> prefers
> >> to
> >> >>wrap the mast and carry the BR all the way forward, why not.  From my
> >> >>perspective the result doesn't provide any benefit (topping the cabin
> >> roof)
> >> >>and provides mobility problems and setup/takedown problems.  Further,
> I
> >> am
> >> >>still not comfortable with a top fabric that needs to be
> treated.  Make
> >> the
> >> >>top white sunbrella, spend precious few bucks more, and not have to
> >> worry
> >> >>about putting treatment on the fabric.  Anyone who doubts, watch how
> >> water
> >> >>behaves on Sunbrella.  That is why it is the industry standard.  I am
> >> >>really not sure the sailcloth is that inexpensive.
> >> >>
> >> >>Another thought - Why do we have to have a cookie cutter product?  It
> is
> >> no
> >> >>more expensive to make it custom than to make it universal in my
> >> view.  If
> >> >>it needs to be $1K a copy, let's answer the challenge.
> >> >>
> >> >>Art
> >> >>
> >> >>-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >From: Slim <salm at mn.rr.com>
> >> >> >Sent: Feb 7, 2006 1:49 AM
> >> >> >To: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> >> >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New Design BR
> >> >> >
> >> >> >OK, look, there's one thing that all agree upon--the pop top
> enclosure
> >> is
> >> >> >too good to be true.  I could go on and on about how easy it is to
> set
> >> up
> >> >> >and take down; doesn't require any frame; you can motor and/or sail
> >> with
> >> >>it
> >> >> >up; provides standing head room under cover; has roll-up storm
> >> >>flaps/screen
> >> >> >windows; easily stowable; is the first defense against the weather;
> >> >>already
> >> >> >beautifully engineered and available for about a grand.  What could
> be
> >> >> >better?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Then comes the cockpit extension.  The cockpit room extension of
> the
> >> PTE.
> >> >> >In my opinion, everyone who is interested in expanding the use of
> >> their
> >> >>boat
> >> >> >should have the PTE first.  Period.  Then why should the boom room
> >> make
> >> >>the
> >> >> >already-perfect PTE obsolete?  Why not integrate?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My guess would be that Stan wants to offer an either/or type of
> option
> >> so
> >> >> >you could either spend a grand on the PTE or spend a grand on the
> Boom
> >> >> >Room--your choice--but you won't have to spend two grand to enclose
> >> the
> >> >> >cockpit.  You could spend one grand for a stand-alone BR like
> >> mine.  But
> >> >> >since nobody DOESN'T want the PTE, or already has one, why not go
> from
> >> >> >there?  Sort of a step one and step two enclosure system.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The two inherent problems with my boom room are the issue with the
> >> >>shrouds
> >> >> >and access to the bow.  Stan seems to be sticking to that design.
> >> Art's
> >> >> >design lacks those flaws.  So does Roger's.  Let's put the best
> >> feature
> >> >>of
> >> >> >each of them together and get rid of the problems.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >It wouldn't take more than a couple zippers and some velcro to
> >> integrate
> >> >>a
> >> >> >boom tent to the PTE and make it splendid.  OK, so you have to
> spend
> >> two
> >> >> >grand for the whole thing.  Anybody complaining?  In theory, I
> >> wouldn't
> >> >> >hesitate to sell my stand-alone BR for what I've got in it ($500)
> and
> >> >>turn
> >> >> >around and spend a G on something else that's new and
> >> perfect.  Something
> >> >> >that can be set up by two drunk chicks in the dark!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Slim
> >> >> >
> >> >> >__________________________________________________
> >> >> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >>
> >> >>__________________________________________________
> >> >>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >__________________________________________________
> >> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >David Bradley
> >203.253.9973
> >dwbrad at gmail.com
> >__________________________________________________
> >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>



--
David Bradley
203.253.9973
dwbrad at gmail.com