[Rhodes22-list] racing rhodes

[TN Rhodey]

Bill,

Nice dodge. Nothing in your post addressed my question. If you don't want to 
answer that is ok. I admit I am curious. Why do you think the RC wants to 
discourage people from racing with a 175? They really don't care. Your post 
indicates you think they have some reason to discourage people from flying 
the proper sail. This is simply not true. You do not understand PHRF. If you 
did you would not make such a claim.

As for the rest of your post it sounds like you agree with me. In a 
triangular course in light to moderate winds the 175 PHRF hit would be well 
worth it. Most racing is not on a triangle course.

Who has said the smaller sail is faster? I don't remember reading or posting 
such claim. I did say that a smaller sail in the right conditions may be 
faster and will get you to the windward mark quicker. A 155 will point 
better (and sail faster) than a 175 furled to 155. Do you disagree? I also 
said the 175 in right conditions is faster. Do you think the 175 is faster 
in all conditions? Again I don't expect you to answer you can go ahead and 
describe how the R22 was designed for LIS ......

You say in absolute terms your boat will be most other boats ......I have no 
idea what absolute terms are. If we stick to real conditions we can measure 
results. I am curious have you ever had anything other than a 175? I have 
flown a 125, a 155, and a huge genny (no idea what size) so I have some 
perspective. I have a blown 155 but Roger let me borrow his 150 genny for 
three months. I have also borrowed a large genny of unknow origin.

Depending on conditions each sail was the "fastest". The difference in 
pointing between the three sails was huge. I will admit the large genny was 
not a perfect fit for the R22.

Wally





>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] racing rhodes
>Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:20:04 -0400
>
>Wally,
>
>I do understand PHRF.
>
>Around here, most courses are triangular in light to moderate winds.  The 
>Rhodes-22 was built on Long Island Sound, for Long Island Sound conditions, 
>and it would be a real contender, as built, if more people chose to race it 
>around here.
>
>People who don't know how to use a 175, keep saying that a smaller sail 
>will make a Rhodes-22 go faster.  That is only true if you over-penalize 
>the larger sail for handicapping purposes.  In absolute terms, my boat, or 
>Rummy's will beat most other R-22s--and we prove that out on the water all 
>the time by flying the 175 full out most of the time.  Rummy let's his boat 
>heel.  I sail mine flat.  Sailing a 175 full out, flat, in moderate to 
>strong winds will allow it to plane.
>
>I was planning to work on pointing this summer, but I have not even had the 
>time to launch my boat yet, so I suspect this project will have to wait 
>until next year.
>
>Stan asked about building a Rhodes to meet racing rules.  I think that is 
>always a bad way to build a boat because they keep changing the rules.  I 
>think Stan should teach people how to use what they've got.  What they've 
>got is a very fast, good pointing, well built, shoal draft, cruising boat 
>that can win a lot of races in the hands of skilled sailors.
>
>A J-22 weighs 1/2 as much as an R-22, carries less sail than a 175, and has 
>a 700 lb. keel twice as deep as ours.  It can sail circles around us--if 
>you let them set the course.  But if you set the course in 24 inch deep 
>waters, the Rhodes wins every time.
>
>PHRF is designed to handicap boats such that any boat can win on any given 
>day, and it is the skill of the sailor that determines the outcome.  If the 
>handicap is wrong, change the handicap, don't change the boat.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>TN Rhodey wrote:
>>
>>>R-22s with 175 gennys are faster than R-22s with 150 gennys,  it's just 
>>>that PHRF fleets penalize the 175s to discourage people from racing with 
>>>them.
>>>
>>
>>Bill,
>>
>>I really don't think you nderstand PHRF. Ratings adjustments are not to 
>>discourage people from using different sails. It is understood that 
>>certain sales under certain conditions are faster. For example if you 
>>declare before the race you are going to fly spinnaker, you take a PHRF 
>>hit.  Not to discourage people but because it is generally agreed that a 
>>boat flying spinnaker is faster down wind. Do you know if you declare 
>>spinnaker before race and decide not to fly you still take a hit? 
>>Sometimes in real heavy winds everyone in our fleet would chicken out and 
>>no one would declare spinnaker. All agreed the boats would get to the 
>>downwind mark faster but under those conditions too much can go wrong.
>>
>>The reason most racers do not use a 175 is because racers know in most 
>>racing conditions the 175 is not the fastest sail. You take the hit furled 
>>or not. If it is too windy and you race furled to 155 you take the hit. If 
>>racers thought 175 was faster rest assured they would use a 175. Most club 
>>racing is upwind and then downwind. Not ideal for 175 especially in heavy 
>>winds. On a triangle course in light to moderate winds the 175 would 
>>likely be well worth the PHRF hit.
>>
>>In racing the best sail plan is the one that allows you to reach your 
>>marks the quickest. This is different than who is sailing the fastest. If 
>>you raced more you would realize that very little racing is done on a 
>>reach. Reaching is the strenth of any large genny. PHRF adjustments are 
>>supposed to keep things fair. The goal is not to discourage people from 
>>flying different sail plans. Why do you keep saying this?
>>
>>Wally
>>
>>
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>>
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