[Rhodes22-list] Right-of-Way

[TN Rhodey]

Bill,

I was just pointing out that your original post had some errors. Re-read 
your original post.

>Even though they are operating at unsafe speeds, it is clear both that they 
>are unable to maneuver, and that you don't want to get hit by them.  You 
>must give way when you see them coming.

Every boat is required to do what they can to avoid an accident. This is 
true if they are stand-on or give way. If you are the stand-on vessel you 
are supposed to stand-on. If nothing changes you then do what ever is needed 
to avoid wreck. Some one can not use the excuse of excessive speed to claim 
restricted movement. "I didn't want to slow down to safely steer around the 
stand on boat....." Good luck with that excuse.

>Commercial boats have right-of-way any time they are restricted in their 
>ability to maneuver.  That winds up being almost all the time.

As I said..... commercial vessels have right of way when they are resticted 
in ability to maneuver. This is different then what you originally posted. 
In inland waters commerical boats are usually restricted, off shore this may 
not be true. In any case commerical vessels do not always have the right of 
way. Neither do sailboats.

>Fishing boats don't have to have lines or nets or traps in the water 
>attached to the boat to be "fishing".

As I said commercial fisherman do not have the right of way unless they are 
fishing. I didn't really try to define fishing. If they are moving from one 
pot to another that may be considered fishing. Heading 40 miles off shore to 
drop nets is not fishing.

>
>The Law of Tonnage is the only one that really matters when you're out on 
>the water.  Somebody posted a video of a sailboat cutting in front of a 
>ferry.  I don't think any of us seriously thought the sailboat had the 
>right of way.

"A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not 
impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane." 
If the ferry was in traffic lane he had the right of way. The rules are 
quite clear.


>Around here people in kayaks think they have the right of way because they 
>are less maneuverable than sailboats.  Boating fatalities are soaring 
>because of these people.  Even in boats as small as ours, you can't see 
>them until it's too late.

So you blame the guy in a kayak for getting hit by a speed boat? I doubt 
boating fatalities are soaring due to kayaks running into speed boats. We do 
not have this problem in TN. How many kayaks a year are you guys losing up 
there?

>People in small boats have to learn to stop doing stupid things.


Well......I agree!

Wally
>
>TN Rhodey wrote:
>>Bill,
>>
>>First off I do everything I can to get out of the way of any boat. Every 
>>boater is supposed to do everything they can to avoid accidents including 
>>keeping a sharp look out and operating at safe speeds for conditions.
>>
>>Driving a boat at 90 mph does not give one the right of way. You are 
>>operating at unsafe speeds.
>>
>>A commerical boat does not always have right of way over sail boat under 
>>sail. If the commerical craft is not restricted by channel or towing they 
>>do not have right of way. Commercial fisherman do have the right a way 
>>when they are actually fishing. They do not have right of way when they 
>>are not fishing.
>>
>>Wally
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>>>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Right-of-Way
>>>Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:44:56 -0400
>>>
>>>Tom, Herb,
>>>
>>>Most people get this wrong.
>>>
>>>Here's the pecking order:
>>>
>>>(Summary of Coast Guard rules courtesy of the state of Tennessee)
>>>
>>>Responsibilities Between Vessels:
>>>
>>>If operating a power driven vessel you must give way to:
>>>
>>>o Any vessel not under command, such as an anchored or disabled vessel.
>>>o Any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver, such as a vessel 
>>>towing, laying cable, or picking up navigation markers, or a vessel 
>>>constrained by its draft such as a large ship in a channel.
>>>o A vessel engaged in commercial fishing
>>>o A sailing vessel (sail only) unless it is overtaking
>>>
>>>If operating a sailing vessel (sail only), you must give way to:
>>>o Any vessel not under command
>>>o Any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver
>>>o A vessel engaged in commercial fishing
>>>
>>>Michael and I sail in waters where we see all kinds of vessels (including 
>>>submarines) all the time.  Every summer we read about a novice sailor 
>>>getting killed while yelling "I've got the right of way!"  -- when in 
>>>fact he doesn't.
>>>
>>>All military vessels have right-of-way over all other vessels.  Next 
>>>comes the Coast Guard.  Next comes emergency vessels.  Next comes 
>>>tugboats.
>>>
>>>Then comes vessels engaged in commercial fishing.
>>>
>>>But way up at the top are vessels not under command, and just below is 
>>>any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver.
>>>
>>>As a practical matter try to think of a commercial vessel that is not 
>>>restricted in its ability to maneuver.  We already know that if you try 
>>>to turn a cruise ship too fast it can tip over.  A Cigarette boat, 
>>>traveling at 90 miles an hour, is restricted in its ability to maneuver.  
>>>Sailboats must give way -- early!
>>>
>>>Some of these big commercial boats have 40 foot drafts.
>>>
>>>I can't think of a commercial boat that wouldn't have right of way over a 
>>>sail boat under sail--can you?
>>>
>>>Experienced sailors always follow "The Law of Tonnage": if something 
>>>bigger than you is bearing down on you -- get out of its way!
>>>
>>>Bill Effros
>>>
>>>PS -- Anchored vessels must be in designated anchorages -- you can't 
>>>anchor in the middle of a busy waterway and think for one second that 
>>>you've got the right of way.  And if you're disabled, but the other boat 
>>>can't maneuver, and can't give way...don't get disabled in front of big 
>>>boats--it won't turn out well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>I'm curious too. Commercial fishing vessels are stand on over sail 
>>>>boats, when they're engaged in fishing. ANY boat (commercial or other) 
>>>>limited in their ability to manuever and in a channel is stand on over a 
>>>>sailing boat as well. But I believe that the blanket statement that all 
>>>>commercial vessels have the right-of-way over any sailing vessel is 
>>>>incorrect.
>>>>
>>>>Herb Parsons
>>>>
>>>>S/V O'Jure
>>>>1976 O'Day 25
>>>>Lake Grapevine, N TX
>>>>
>>>>S/V Reve de Papa
>>>>1971 Coronado 35
>>>>Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>Tatflies at cs.com 7/26/2006 10:29:26 pm >>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>Bill,
>>>>
>>>>Why do commercial vessels have the right-of-way over any sailing vessel 
>>>>(unless limited in their ability to manuever)?
>>>>
>>>>Tom T.
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
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