[Rhodes22-list] Reduce your federal income tax (political humor)

[Herb Parsons]

"The right wing anti-free loading people on the list ask the question 
"What makes it OK for anyone to free load on the system--whether they 
are "citizens" or not?"  "

You know Bill, I've been watching this conversation, and I haven't seen ANY "right wing anti-free loading people" on the list ask that question. Are you sure you're not allowing some of your own pre-conceived ideas seep in a little?


Herb Parsons

S/V O'Jure
1976 O'Day 25
Lake Grapevine, N TX

S/V Reve de Papa
1971 Coronado 35
Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Coast

>>> bill at effros.com 6/28/2006 7:26:27 am >>>
Complicated, huh, Dave?

I don't think it's possible to untangle the cost/benefit ratio except to 
the extent that the powers that be feel we come out ahead by winking at 
what's going on.

I hope there's an amnesty clause in your born in the USA, not a citizen 
amendment.  My mother was born in the USA during WWI while my Dutch 
Grandparents were running a business here.  That made her a US citizen, 
and that's the only reason she survived WWII.  As a citizen she could 
just enter the country without waiting for "papers".  Both of my Aunts 
and my Grandfather were killed during the war because they were not born 
in the USA.

So what about me?  Do I lose my US citizenship because my mother 
shouldn't have had it either?

What about your kids?  Where does their US citizenship come from if not 
from born in the USA.  How far back can you provide paperwork proving 
your family (on both sides) complied with laws you want to change 
entitling them to US citizenship?

When we ran a factory, the only people who could provide the required 
"papers" were the people we knew were illegal.  But the law required us 
to accept the clearly forged "papers" they provided and to reject people 
we knew were born in the USA of parents born in the USA because those 
people had no access to the required paperwork.

It's really a tricky business.

The right wing anti-free loading people on the list ask the question 
"What makes it OK for anyone to free load on the system--whether they 
are "citizens" or not?"  How do you answer this?

Bill Effros





DCLewis1 at aol.com wrote:
> Bill,
>  
> I think you and I are in violent agreement when it comes to the working  
> illegals that pay taxes and take jobs that no American wants.   For  example, the 
> illegal aliens I've observed in northern  Virginia work mostly in skilled or 
> unskilled manual labor, but I don't see  many Americans, especially young 
> Americans, interested in any type of manual  labor; so if no American will take the 
> job, and it has to be done, I think the  illegals are doing us a favor.  They 
> are reported to be great  workers.  
>  
> Now if illegal immigration started to impact higher skilled jobs, I might  
> react differently, but I haven't seen that happen yet.   On the other  hand I 
> don't really track employment patterns, it might have happened.
>  
> As to the contributions illegal aliens that pay taxes make to Soc Security,  
> you are doubtless correct they are an asset.   But how about  the  debits to 
> their accounts for public schools, aid to dependent children, indigent  medical 
> care, low cost housing, additional policing,......?  On balance, I  don't 
> think it's even close, as a group these people are poorly paid and live  poorly, 
> net is a huge minus just on the costs of public schools.   Yes  the feds make 
> out with Soc Security, but state and local governments get taken  to the 
> cleaners on social service costs - which is why state and local  governments are 
> screaming at the federal government to do something about  illegal immigration, 
> and which is probably why the feds have been, and will  probably continue to 
> be, so feckless with enforcement.
>  
> Where we may disagree is regarding the illegals who are riding the social  
> services infrastructure and not paying taxes at all, to include Soc  Security.  
> You insist that's not the case with people working on your  house, and Brad 
> may not dream about them, but believe me, they are  here.  If you go to a street 
> corner in WDC you will find them selling  mangoes, water, whatever; on their 
> own behalf, many are maids, many are day  laborers and don't pay taxes and 
> taxes aren't paid on their behalf - Brad may  have heard of this category of 
> illegal alien even if he's never employed  one.  These people, and their children, 
> are really killing the social  services budgets.  My prior post gave an 
> example.  They will tell you  they came to this country for a better life - and 
> they're right.  I will  tell you they came to this country for a better life at 
> your and my expense -  and I'll be right.  This category of illegal alien does 
> not pay taxes  - at all.  They don't want to pay taxes, they'd rather keep the 
>  nominal amount of $ they earn and let you and I pay for their social support 
>  services.  It may sound heartless, but I think these people absolutely have  
> to pay taxes, they cannot expect to just ride our social services 
> infrastructure  - which is what they're doing.  If they don't pay taxes they should be  
> deported except as services can be denied (and generally, I don't think  
> services can be denied).  
>  
> One legislative change that would facilitate the deport option would  be to 
> get rid of the law that makes anyone born in the US a US citizen whether  or 
> not the parent(s) were US citizens - change that law and you could deport  whole 
> "families" - that would be a start.  Correlate tax filings with  school 
> enrollments, medical admissions, food stamps, etc, to identify who  was using 
> social services without paying taxes - that would be another  start.  (Note: this 
> doesn't mean everyone who doesn't pay some tax and uses  social services is 
> deported, it just provides a finite starting list for  motivated inquiring 
> minds.)  Insisting that churches and charitable  organizations that provide support 
> for illegal aliens for a finite amount of  time, and then dump them on local 
> governments, continue their support  indefinitely as needed would be another 
> start.
>  
> I think the task of identifying free loading illegals is very doable, but  
> that the federal government really doesn't want to take it on.  The  feds aren't 
> serious about this and never have been.  The feds will tell you  they just 
> can't find an estimated 11 million illegal aliens, but your  safe because they 
> are locked on and tracking 8 terrorists from Miami; it's all  about their 
> priorities, if they wanted to find illegal aliens they  could.  
>  
> JMO.
>  
> Dave
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list 
>
>   
__________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list