[Rhodes22-list] Reply to Dave Lewis and his fellow travelers

[DCLewis1 at aol.com]

Ed,
 
To answer your questions directly, you and I both know we are still in  
Germany and Japan.  Further to the point, those costs are borne by those  occupied 
countries that were defeated in WWII, not by the US.
 
Do we expect Iraq to bear the cost of the Iraqi occupation?   Judging from 
the Administrations supplemental appropriations to support  operations in Iraq 
the answer is clearly no.
 
You state “I do not believe that we should walk away and leave the general  
populace to thugs, goons and jerks”.   I point out 2 things:
- That  is a very enlightened and liberal position whose flip side is that 
you are going  to put our sons, daughters, husbands, and wives directly in harms 
way on the  supposition that the general population is not largely thugs, 
goons, and  jerks.
- I think most of them are thugs, goons, and jerks.  I feel no  
responsibility at all to help their self actualization processes as each Iraqi  strives to 
be all that he or she would like to be.  I’m for outta  there.
 
As for your comment that nation building is “the right thing to do”, I  
think that whole notion of "nation building" is presumptuous and arrogant, and  
shows a characteristically liberal mind set.  What model are you going to  build 
it in?  Why our model of course.  We’re going to “institute” a  humane 
democracy with a written constitution modeled after our government,  etc.  Civil 
institutions that work in Muncie Indiana will clearly work in  some god forsaken 
village ruled by a warlord in Iraq - right?  I think  there are compelling 
reasons why Iraq was ruled by a tyrant and all those  reasons come back to the 
people of Iraq at some point.  I don’t doubt that  there are a few good people 
in Iraq, but clearly very many of them hate each  other and think nothing of 
killing their own, others, themselves, anything that  lives.  It takes a tyrant 
to rule those kinds of people - we found that out  in Bosnia and Somalia also.
 
A conservative would not assume that the human beings in Iraq are  “
perfectible”, a liberal would.  A liberal would assume that given the  right 
enlightened education and opportunities the people of Iraq would evolve  and happily 
work together to build the best of all possible Iraqs, a  conservative would 
respond "good luck".  I’m not throwing  conservative/liberal labels and jargon 
around here, if you examine the  conservative and liberal literature this is one 
characteristic difference in  their world view.  I think your world view with 
Iraq is that of a  liberal.   I am much more skeptical that “deep down” the 
average Iraqi  is really a nice guy that just wants to get along with everybody 
- Stan’s  illustration makes my point.
 
Finally, you inquired regarding the results of our occupation of Japan and  
Germany.  They both turned out well - so far.  Although, now Japan  owns a 
large part of America so you might ask who really won.  But  remember, both Japan 
and Germany started their occupation as defeated and  developed nations.  Iraq 
is neither defeated (you read the casualty count  daily - there’s an on going 
guerrilla war) nor is it developed.  If you  took oil away from Iraq there 
wouldn’t be much.  Japan and Germany were  both world powers, economically, 
politically, technically, and every other way  before the war.  Extrapolating the 
experience with  Germany and Japan  to Iraq is a big mistake.

Outta Iraq works for me.  I don’t assume Iraq is perfectible and I  don’t 
want anyone I know hurt or killed trying to “perfect” it.
 
Dave