[Rhodes22-list] Bonnie Fuel Pump Problems

Wed Nov 8 19:45:23 EST 2006

Hank,

I used to fly the Swearigen Metroliner (we fondly referred to it as the
Polish cruise missle), the only civilian aircraft that came from the factory
with a JATO bottle installed in the tail.  I never got to fire one.  My
guess is that a JATO on a doctor killer would win you a Darwin Award.  On
the other hand, flying the "San Antonio Sewer Pipe", otherwise known as a
Metroliner, should put one in the running for a Darwin by itself.

Brad

PS - I think the discussion on fuel lines may be on the money.  We'll look
at anything at this point.

On 11/8/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Cool!!  JATO bottles on the "Doctor Killer".  Brad, what kink of Rate of
> Climb do you think you can get with this new mod?
>
> Hank
>
> On 11/8/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >
> > USAF had a similar problem with the B-47.  Do what they did:
> >
> > Strap on JATO bottles for take off, fly at 90% power.
> >
> > Deploy an "approach chute" for landings.
> >
> > Bill Effros
> >
> > Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> > > Hank and Brad,
> > >
> > > The situation the you refer to is found in a carb (normally aspirated)
> > > equipped engine fuel bowl fill problem.  Either the float level is set
> > too
> > > low or the bad pump doesn't have enough pressure to open the inlet
> > valve.  A
> > > 12 pound output (if the gauge is correct) should be plenty of pressure
> > to do
> > > the job.
> > >
> > > I still think that the problem is related to the line going to the
> > pump.  If
> > > the line is kinked, the pump may have difficulty drawing enough fuel
> > through
> > > the high resistance of the line when at low RPM (reduced
> output).  This
> > is
> > > akin to trying to breath through a narrow hose compared to a large
> bore
> > hose
> > > when under water.  It is much harder to suck through the narrow
> > tubing.  The
> > > electric pump, which I presume is located near the tank, pushes the
> fuel
> > > through the line at full (30 PSI?) pressure, regardless of engine
> speed.
> > >
> > > Is the problem related to both (or several) tanks?  If it is, the
> > problem
> > > may be in the tank selector.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > From: "Hank" <hnw555 at gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:31 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Brad,
> > >>
> > >> A slow drip, say 1 drop every 5-10 seconds, is normal even when the
> > boat
> > >>
> > > is
> > >
> > >> not running.  The only way to eliminate drips completely is to
> install
> > a
> > >> dripless shaft seal.
> > >>
> > >> IRT, your toy, it makes me think of the old joke, Doctor it hurts
> when
> > I
> > >> cough.  So don't Cough!  So don't bring the idle down below
> 1000!  Easy
> > >>
> > > fix,
> > >
> > >> next problem?
> > >>
> > >> Seriously, I used to have a similar problem on a Chevy Truck, except
> in
> > >> reverse.  At idle and slow speeds the engine ran fine, but at highway
> > >>
> > > speeds
> > >
> > >> the engine would sputter.  The pump was in failing mode and supplied
> a
> > >> reduced amount of fuel, which was fine at lower speeds, but not
> > sufficient
> > >> at highway speeds.
> > >>
> > >> Here is an idea.  In a regular carburetor, the pump sends fuel up to
> a
> > >> supply chamber in teh carburetor that is there to react to immediate
> > >>
> > > changes
> > >
> > >> in throttle settings.  It sounds like your pump quits working below
> > 1000
> > >>
> > > rpm
> > >
> > >> and the engine dies once the feed chamber has been emptied.
> > >>
> > >> Hank
> > >>
> > >> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hank & Rummy,
> > >>>
> > >>> The issue is that the dripping continues when the engine is shut
> off.
> > >>>
> > > In
> > >
> > >>> fact, it was dripping when I arrived at the boat after not having
> been
> > >>>
> > > run
> > >
> > >>> for a week.  It has always dripped some while running, as it is
> > supposed
> > >>> to,
> > >>> but never that much.  What causes it to drip stationary?
> > >>>
> > >>> While you're solving that problem, I just got back from the airport
> to
> > >>>
> > > fly
> > >
> > >>> my airplane.  The new engine driven pump works fine at full power
> all
> > >>>
> > > the
> > >
> > >>> way down to idle at 1000 rpm.  However, comma, when you pull the
> idle
> > >>>
> > > back
> > >
> > >>> to 700, where it is correctly set, the fuel pressure off the engine
> > pump
> > >>> stabilizes at 12 pounds, which is fine, then after 30 seconds
> suddenly
> > >>> goes
> > >>> to zero and the engine quits.  If you can flip on the electric pump
> > fast
> > >>> enough it comes back to life.  The mystery continues.
> > >>>
> > >>> Don't you just love toys!
> > >>>
> > >>> Brad
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 11/8/06, Hank < hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Brad,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> All standard stuffing boxes should drip some.  It is required to
> keep
> > >>>>
> > > it
> > >
> > >>>> lubricated and cooled.  My Islander 36 always had some water in the
> > >>>>
> > >>> bilge
> > >>>
> > >>>> and that is normal for a lot of boats.  I didn't worry about it
> > >>>>
> > > freezing
> > >
> > >>>> as
> > >>>> it was not "enclosed" such as inside a pipe or engine block and
> > >>>>
> > > couldn't
> > >
> > >>>> rupture anything.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> That being said, if you find that you do have stuffing box issues,
> I
> > >>>> highly
> > >>>> recommend changing to a dripless system.  After, I switched mine, I
> > >>>>
> > >>> never
> > >>>
> > >>>> had any water coming in from there.  Check out
> > >>>> http://www.shaftseal.com/index.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hank
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hank,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Good question.  I'm thinking the water is getting by the stuffing
> > >>>>>
> > > box
> > >
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> finding the next weakest link.  The sequence is transmission -
> brass
> > >>>>> coupling - rubber enclosed shaft? - and I think the stuffing box.
> > >>>>>
> > > To
> > >
> > >>> be
> > >>>
> > >>>>> honest, I didn't have time to troubleshoot the problem.  The
> steady
> > >>>>>
> > >>> drip
> > >>>
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>> coming from the brass coupling just downstream from the
> tranny.  It
> > >>>>>
> > >>> has
> > >>>
> > >>>>> two
> > >>>>> fittings that tighten against each other but I didn't have the
> tools
> > >>>>>
> > >>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>>> try
> > >>>>> it. The water accumulates to the top of the bilge and then vents
> > >>>>> overboard.
> > >>>>> I'll need to fix or haul before the first good freeze.  I keep a
> > >>>>>
> > >>> heater
> > >>>
> > >>>> on
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> at 40 degrees when I'm gone during the winter but yesterday the
> > >>>>> electricity
> > >>>>> at the docks was off.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Any more ideas?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Brad
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 11/8/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Brad,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> How could the drive shaft be dripping where it connects to the
> > >>>>>> transmission?  Where is the water coming in from?  I started to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>> think
> > >>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> stuffing box, but it should be lower than the tranmission
> > >>>>>>
> > > coupling,
> > >
> > >>> so
> > >>>
> > >>>>>> that
> > >>>>>> shouldn't be a possibility.  Is the water coming in from above
> the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> engine
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> and then just collecting and dripping off of the shaft?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Just some ideas.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hank
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett < flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Finally,  some good news to brighten-up a difficult yesterday.
> > >>>>>>>
> > > We
> > >
> > >>>>>> closed
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> on
> > >>>>>>> the sale of our shop building near the lake and sold our tractor
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> we
> > >>>
> > >>>>> used
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>> bushog the place as well. The buyer for the tractor kept me
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> waiting
> > >>>
> > >>>>> over
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> four hours and then did some last minute haggling over a
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> previously
> > >>>
> > >>>>>> agreed
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> upon price.  Forunately for him I came unarmed. The bad news is
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> that
> > >>>
> > >>>>> my
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> boat
> > >>>>>>> had water in the bilge for the first time ever.  The drive shaft
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> is
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>> steadily
> > >>>>>>> dripping where it connects to the transmission.  This may be a
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> result
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>> grounding last year.  Anyway, the repair will probably require
> > >>>>>>>
> > > it
> > >
> > >>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>>> be
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> hauled, which  is a good idea anyway to inspect for damage.
> > >>>>>>>
> > > I've
> > >
> > >>>> been
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> operating on the theory of "what you don't know can't hurt you"
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> but
> > >>>
> > >>>>> that
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> game has been played long enough.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The DC-10 is going away in the next couple of years and I have
> > >>>>>>>
> > > to
> > >
> > >>>> make
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> leap into the digital age one way or the other.  I have been
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> predicting
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> this
> > >>>>>>> event all along and damned if I wasn't right.  Here is something
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>>> look
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> forward to.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Brad
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --------------------------
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> *Company Cancels A380 Order *
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> MEMPHIS, Tenn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--FedEx Express, a unit of FedEx
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> Corp.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> (NYSE:
> > >>>>>>> FDX), announced today an agreement with The Boeing Company
> > >>>>>>>
> > > (NYSE:
> > >
> > >>>> BA)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> acquire 15 new Boeing 777 Freighter aircraft with options to
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> purchase
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> an
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> additional 15 aircraft. The decision to purchase the 777F was
> > >>>>>>>
> > > made
> > >
> > >>>>> after
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Airbus announced significant delays in delivery of the A380.
> > >>>>>>>
> > > FedEx
> > >
> > >>>>>> Express
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> notified Airbus that it has cancelled its order for 10
> > >>>>>>>
> > > A380-800Fs.
> > >
> > >>>>>>> "Global demand for air cargo and express services continues to
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> grow
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>> rapidly
> > >>>>>>> and FedEx has made significant investments in our network to
> > >>>>>>>
> > > meet
> > >
> > >>>>>>> customers'needs and fulfill our business objectives. Therefore,
> > >>>>>>>
> > > it
> > >
> > >>>> was
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> necessary and
> > >>>>>>> prudent for us to acquire the Boeing 777 Freighter." said
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> Frederick
> > >>>
> > >>>> W.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> Smith, chairman, president and chief executive officer, FedEx
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> Corp.
> > >>>
> > >>>>> "The
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> availability and delivery timing of this aircraft, coupled with
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> its
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>> attractive payload range and economics, make this choice the
> > >>>>>>>
> > > best
> > >
> > >>>>>> decision
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> for FedEx, its customers, shareowners and employees."
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> FedEx Express continues to be Airbus' largest wide-body airplane
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> customer
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> and will add additional new and used Airbus wide-body aircraft
> > >>>>>>>
> > > to
> > >
> > >>>> its
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> fleet
> > >>>>>>> in coming years. Six new A300-600 aircraft are scheduled to join
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> the
> > >>>
> > >>>>>> FedEx
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> fleet in 2007.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> *Boeing 777*
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The Boeing 777 Freighter is the world's largest twin-engine
> > >>>>>>>
> > > cargo
> > >
> > >>>>>> aircraft
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> with a range of more than 6,100 nautical miles and a revenue
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> payload
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>> capacity of 171,000 pounds. This represents a 2,200 nautical
> > >>>>>>>
> > > mile
> > >
> > >>>>>> increase
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> in range and an additional 8,500 pounds of revenue payload over
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> the
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>> MD-11F,
> > >>>>>>> which is FedEx's primary long-haul aircraft. These advantages
> > >>>>>>>
> > > will
> > >
> > >>>>>> result
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>> more non-stop, point-to-point transoceanic routes with shorter
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> flight
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> times,
> > >>>>>>> enabling improved service offerings to FedEx customers. FedEx
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> Express
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> expected to take delivery of four of the 777 aircraft in
> > >>>>>>>
> > > calendar
> > >
> > >>>> year
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> 2009,
> > >>>>>>> eight in 2010 and the remaining three in 2011.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> "The Boeing 777F will allow FedEx Express to fly directly
> > >>>>>>>
> > > between
> > >
> > >>>>> major
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> markets and hubs in Asia, Europe and the U.S. with more freight
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>> and
> > >>>
> > >>>> in
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> less
> > >>>>>>> time than it takes today, improving fuel efficiency and lowering
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>> total
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> operating costs," said David J. Bronczek, president and chief
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> executive
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>> officer, FedEx Express.
> > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org , Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
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> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> __________________________________________________
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> > >>>>
> > >>> __________________________________________________
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> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> __________________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >
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> > >
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