[Rhodes22-list] Bonnie Fuel Pump Problems

[Hank]

Brad,

I'm pretty sure the P3s are still in use from shore and the S3 is used from
Carriers.

Hank



On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Art,
>
> That's alcohol abuse!
>
> Over the years I've flown with a lot of Navy P-3 drivers.  Who or what
> chases submarines now?
>
> Brad
>
>
> On 11/8/06, Arthur H. Czerwonky <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Brad,
> >
> > I was in a P2/P3 squadron too many years ago, the P2V converted from 2
> > props into 2 props & 2 jets outboard.  With a full load the plane just
> > couldn't perform adequately on take-off, even at sea level.
> >
> > We hosted a P2 reserve squadron at Jax on one of their drill weekends
> and
> > they used the jets for assist, unfortunately loaded to the hilt with
> Puerto
> > Rican rum.  It climbed about 25' and then settled neatly into the St.
> John's
> > River.  What a sight!
> >
> > Art
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > >Sent: Nov 8, 2006 8:45 PM
> > >To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Bonnie Fuel Pump Problems
> > >
> > >Hank,
> > >
> > >I used to fly the Swearigen Metroliner (we fondly referred to it as the
> > >Polish cruise missle), the only civilian aircraft that came from the
> > factory
> > >with a JATO bottle installed in the tail.  I never got to fire one.  My
> > >guess is that a JATO on a doctor killer would win you a Darwin
> Award.  On
> > >the other hand, flying the "San Antonio Sewer Pipe", otherwise known as
> a
> > >Metroliner, should put one in the running for a Darwin by itself.
> > >
> > >Brad
> > >
> > >PS - I think the discussion on fuel lines may be on the money.  We'll
> > look
> > >at anything at this point.
> > >
> > >
> > >On 11/8/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Cool!!  JATO bottles on the "Doctor Killer".  Brad, what kink of Rate
> > of
> > >> Climb do you think you can get with this new mod?
> > >>
> > >> Hank
> > >>
> > >> On 11/8/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > USAF had a similar problem with the B-47.  Do what they did:
> > >> >
> > >> > Strap on JATO bottles for take off, fly at 90% power.
> > >> >
> > >> > Deploy an "approach chute" for landings.
> > >> >
> > >> > Bill Effros
> > >> >
> > >> > Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> > >> > > Hank and Brad,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The situation the you refer to is found in a carb (normally
> > aspirated)
> > >> > > equipped engine fuel bowl fill problem.  Either the float level
> is
> > set
> > >> > too
> > >> > > low or the bad pump doesn't have enough pressure to open the
> inlet
> > >> > valve.  A
> > >> > > 12 pound output (if the gauge is correct) should be plenty of
> > pressure
> > >> > to do
> > >> > > the job.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I still think that the problem is related to the line going to
> the
> > >> > pump.  If
> > >> > > the line is kinked, the pump may have difficulty drawing enough
> > fuel
> > >> > through
> > >> > > the high resistance of the line when at low RPM (reduced
> > >> output).  This
> > >> > is
> > >> > > akin to trying to breath through a narrow hose compared to a
> large
> > >> bore
> > >> > hose
> > >> > > when under water.  It is much harder to suck through the narrow
> > >> > tubing.  The
> > >> > > electric pump, which I presume is located near the tank, pushes
> the
> > >> fuel
> > >> > > through the line at full (30 PSI?) pressure, regardless of engine
> > >> speed.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Is the problem related to both (or several) tanks?  If it is, the
> > >> > problem
> > >> > > may be in the tank selector.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Mike
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > From: "Hank" <hnw555 at gmail.com>
> > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:31 PM
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> Brad,
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> A slow drip, say 1 drop every 5-10 seconds, is normal even when
> > the
> > >> > boat
> > >> > >>
> > >> > > is
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> not running.  The only way to eliminate drips completely is to
> > >> install
> > >> > a
> > >> > >> dripless shaft seal.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> IRT, your toy, it makes me think of the old joke, Doctor it
> hurts
> > >> when
> > >> > I
> > >> > >> cough.  So don't Cough!  So don't bring the idle down below
> > >> 1000!  Easy
> > >> > >>
> > >> > > fix,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> next problem?
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Seriously, I used to have a similar problem on a Chevy Truck,
> > except
> > >> in
> > >> > >> reverse.  At idle and slow speeds the engine ran fine, but at
> > highway
> > >> > >>
> > >> > > speeds
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> the engine would sputter.  The pump was in failing mode and
> > supplied
> > >> a
> > >> > >> reduced amount of fuel, which was fine at lower speeds, but not
> > >> > sufficient
> > >> > >> at highway speeds.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Here is an idea.  In a regular carburetor, the pump sends fuel
> up
> > to
> > >> a
> > >> > >> supply chamber in teh carburetor that is there to react to
> > immediate
> > >> > >>
> > >> > > changes
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> in throttle settings.  It sounds like your pump quits working
> > below
> > >> > 1000
> > >> > >>
> > >> > > rpm
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> and the engine dies once the feed chamber has been emptied.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Hank
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>> Hank & Rummy,
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> The issue is that the dripping continues when the engine is
> shut
> > >> off.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > > In
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> fact, it was dripping when I arrived at the boat after not
> having
> > >> been
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > > run
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> for a week.  It has always dripped some while running, as it is
> > >> > supposed
> > >> > >>> to,
> > >> > >>> but never that much.  What causes it to drip stationary?
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> While you're solving that problem, I just got back from the
> > airport
> > >> to
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > > fly
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> my airplane.  The new engine driven pump works fine at full
> power
> > >> all
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > > the
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> way down to idle at 1000 rpm.  However, comma, when you pull
> the
> > >> idle
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > > back
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> to 700, where it is correctly set, the fuel pressure off the
> > engine
> > >> > pump
> > >> > >>> stabilizes at 12 pounds, which is fine, then after 30 seconds
> > >> suddenly
> > >> > >>> goes
> > >> > >>> to zero and the engine quits.  If you can flip on the electric
> > pump
> > >> > fast
> > >> > >>> enough it comes back to life.  The mystery continues.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Don't you just love toys!
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Brad
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> On 11/8/06, Hank < hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>> Brad,
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>> All standard stuffing boxes should drip some.  It is required
> to
> > >> keep
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > > it
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> lubricated and cooled.  My Islander 36 always had some water
> in
> > the
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>> bilge
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>> and that is normal for a lot of boats.  I didn't worry about
> it
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > > freezing
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> as
> > >> > >>>> it was not "enclosed" such as inside a pipe or engine block
> and
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > > couldn't
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> rupture anything.
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>> That being said, if you find that you do have stuffing box
> > issues,
> > >> I
> > >> > >>>> highly
> > >> > >>>> recommend changing to a dripless system.  After, I switched
> > mine, I
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>> never
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>> had any water coming in from there.  Check out
> > >> > >>>> http://www.shaftseal.com/index.html
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>> Hank
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>> Hank,
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> Good question.  I'm thinking the water is getting by the
> > stuffing
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > > box
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> and
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>> finding the next weakest link.  The sequence is transmission
> -
> > >> brass
> > >> > >>>>> coupling - rubber enclosed shaft? - and I think the stuffing
> > box.
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > > To
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> be
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> honest, I didn't have time to troubleshoot the problem.  The
> > >> steady
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>> drip
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> is
> > >> > >>>>> coming from the brass coupling just downstream from the
> > >> tranny.  It
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>> has
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> two
> > >> > >>>>> fittings that tighten against each other but I didn't have
> the
> > >> tools
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>> to
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> try
> > >> > >>>>> it. The water accumulates to the top of the bilge and then
> > vents
> > >> > >>>>> overboard.
> > >> > >>>>> I'll need to fix or haul before the first good freeze.  I
> keep
> > a
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>> heater
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>> on
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>> at 40 degrees when I'm gone during the winter but yesterday
> the
> > >> > >>>>> electricity
> > >> > >>>>> at the docks was off.
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> Any more ideas?
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> Brad
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> On 11/8/06, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> Brad,
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> How could the drive shaft be dripping where it connects to
> the
> > >> > >>>>>> transmission?  Where is the water coming in from?  I started
> > to
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>> think
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> the
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> stuffing box, but it should be lower than the tranmission
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > > coupling,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> so
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>> that
> > >> > >>>>>> shouldn't be a possibility.  Is the water coming in from
> above
> > >> the
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> engine
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> and then just collecting and dripping off of the shaft?
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> Just some ideas.
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> Hank
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> On 11/8/06, Brad Haslett < flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> Finally,  some good news to brighten-up a difficult
> > yesterday.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > We
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>> closed
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> on
> > >> > >>>>>>> the sale of our shop building near the lake and sold our
> > tractor
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> we
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> used
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> to
> > >> > >>>>>>> bushog the place as well. The buyer for the tractor kept me
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> waiting
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> over
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> four hours and then did some last minute haggling over a
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> previously
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>> agreed
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> upon price.  Forunately for him I came unarmed. The bad
> news
> > is
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> that
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> my
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> boat
> > >> > >>>>>>> had water in the bilge for the first time ever.  The drive
> > shaft
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> is
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> steadily
> > >> > >>>>>>> dripping where it connects to the transmission.  This may
> be
> > a
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>> result
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>> of
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> the
> > >> > >>>>>>> grounding last year.  Anyway, the repair will probably
> > require
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > it
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>> to
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> be
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> hauled, which  is a good idea anyway to inspect for damage.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > I've
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> been
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> operating on the theory of "what you don't know can't hurt
> > you"
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> but
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> that
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> game has been played long enough.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> The DC-10 is going away in the next couple of years and I
> > have
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > to
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> make
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> the
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> leap into the digital age one way or the other.  I have
> been
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> predicting
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> this
> > >> > >>>>>>> event all along and damned if I wasn't right.  Here is
> > something
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> to
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> look
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> forward to.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> Brad
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> --------------------------
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> *Company Cancels A380 Order *
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> MEMPHIS, Tenn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--FedEx Express, a unit of
> > FedEx
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>> Corp.
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> (NYSE:
> > >> > >>>>>>> FDX), announced today an agreement with The Boeing Company
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > (NYSE:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> BA)
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>> to
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> acquire 15 new Boeing 777 Freighter aircraft with options
> to
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>> purchase
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>> an
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> additional 15 aircraft. The decision to purchase the 777F
> was
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > made
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>> after
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> Airbus announced significant delays in delivery of the
> A380.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > FedEx
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>> Express
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> notified Airbus that it has cancelled its order for 10
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > A380-800Fs.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>>> "Global demand for air cargo and express services continues
> > to
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> grow
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> rapidly
> > >> > >>>>>>> and FedEx has made significant investments in our network
> to
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > meet
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>>> customers'needs and fulfill our business objectives.
> > Therefore,
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > it
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> was
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> necessary and
> > >> > >>>>>>> prudent for us to acquire the Boeing 777 Freighter." said
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> Frederick
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>> W.
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> Smith, chairman, president and chief executive officer,
> FedEx
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> Corp.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>> "The
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> availability and delivery timing of this aircraft, coupled
> > with
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> its
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> attractive payload range and economics, make this choice
> the
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > best
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>> decision
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> for FedEx, its customers, shareowners and employees."
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> FedEx Express continues to be Airbus' largest wide-body
> > airplane
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> customer
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> and will add additional new and used Airbus wide-body
> > aircraft
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > to
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> its
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> fleet
> > >> > >>>>>>> in coming years. Six new A300-600 aircraft are scheduled to
> > join
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> the
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>> FedEx
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> fleet in 2007.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> *Boeing 777*
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> The Boeing 777 Freighter is the world's largest twin-engine
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > cargo
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>> aircraft
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> with a range of more than 6,100 nautical miles and a
> revenue
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> payload
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> capacity of 171,000 pounds. This represents a 2,200
> nautical
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > mile
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>> increase
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> in range and an additional 8,500 pounds of revenue payload
> > over
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> the
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> MD-11F,
> > >> > >>>>>>> which is FedEx's primary long-haul aircraft. These
> advantages
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > will
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>>> result
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> in
> > >> > >>>>>>> more non-stop, point-to-point transoceanic routes with
> > shorter
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>> flight
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> times,
> > >> > >>>>>>> enabling improved service offerings to FedEx customers.
> FedEx
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>> Express
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>> is
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> expected to take delivery of four of the 777 aircraft in
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > calendar
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>> year
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> 2009,
> > >> > >>>>>>> eight in 2010 and the remaining three in 2011.
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> "The Boeing 777F will allow FedEx Express to fly directly
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > > between
> > >> > >
> > >> > >>>>> major
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> markets and hubs in Asia, Europe and the U.S. with more
> > freight
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>> and
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>> in
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> less
> > >> > >>>>>>> time than it takes today, improving fuel efficiency and
> > lowering
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>> total
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> operating costs," said David J. Bronczek, president and
> chief
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> executive
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>> officer, FedEx Express.
> > >> > >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >> > >>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org , Help?
> www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >> > >>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>>
> > >> > >>>>> __________________________________________________
> > >> > >>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>>>
> > >> > >>>> __________________________________________________
> > >> > >>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>> __________________________________________________
> > >> > >>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org , Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >> > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > __________________________________________________
> > >> > > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > __________________________________________________
> > >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> >
> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >>
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>