[Rhodes22-list] National Debt

[Joseph Hadzima]

Hi Slim
 
I don't have all the answers either, however, I believe I have an understanding of the situation.  When I was "down-sized" my personal debt increased.  I still needed to support my family, and knew I would be able to pay it off later (at least I had high hopes).  We had the same thing happened on a much larger scale for the country.  I know two people that have a line of credit on their house - just so they can write a check, if the company puts them back on the street.
 
Anyone recall the "Dot Bomb" crisis? Many IT type companies going belly-up in 1999, 2000, & 2001?  A lot of unemployment dollars were spent, including extensions to benefits, and training programs.  Since people were unemployed we weren't getting tax money from them, or the matching funds from their companies.
 
We had a surplus prior to 9/11, however, the Army we had at that didn't have flack vests for all the troops. The nasty little war in Iraq is a major $$ drain, and if we didn't have that we could have not paid for armor plated Hummers, and flack vests, and let the next administration worry about it if/when they need to send in troops somewhere. With the change in the balance of power, we'll be out of there in 2 more years (3 years tops) , and can start working on reducing the debt. :-)
 
Also since 9/11 people stopped traveling, and it took several years and a bunch of tax cuts to keep the entire travel industry from collapse.  Remember  the stock markets were closed for a week after that Tuesday, and when they opened the country almost landed in a depression.  The usual government response is increase spending/ & tax cuts to counter it.  
 
Additionally, we had NCLB and people demanded it be funded. FL had two nasty hurricane seasons, then last year  LA, MS & TX had a little bad weather, and we bought/rented a bunch of trailers for people.
 
The bottom line is when times get hard, you sometimes get into some hard debt.  Unlike people, the country should survive long enough to pay it all off.  Yes we're taking a mortgage on our kids' future. but I think we're spending a lot of the money on them right now.  
 
Yes too much debt is a very bad thing.  But, if you're using debt to get through an emergency, rather making it a part of daily life, then you have a chance of getting away with it.  This debt thingy is what put the extreme people in power two years ago. 

The real question I think is "how much debt is too much?".  the number sound big,but we still need to put it in prospective by considering the relative earning potential, and time to pay back.  this is a hughe debt, and we'll need to pay it back before the next crisis.  I think our credit is still at least fair  :-)

 
HADZ (a.k.a. joe) 
 
"That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and hull and a deck and sails. That's what a ship needs. But what a ship is... is freedom." 
-- Captain Jack Sparrow 


----- Original Message ----
From: Slim <salm at mn.rr.com>
To: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 3:12:30 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] National Debt


Brad,

Where am I going with this?  What a question!  The debt is 8.5 trillion and
you're asking, "Yeah?  So?  What's your point?"  Brad, aren't you the least
bit concerned?  No, I don't have a better plan.  That's not my job.  I'm
just a dumbass musician who can only count to four.  If I did have a plan,
who'd listen to me?  It's the job of our congressmen to fix it.  They got us
into this.  I get to bitch because I'm a voting, tax-paying citizen.

Where I'm going with this is that I think it's past time we should hold some
feet to the fire and demand a fiscal solution.  It bothers me that this
issue doesn't seem to be anywhere on the radar.  I think that's because:
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."
(the Rummy post.  Um, the good Rummy, not the bad Rummy.)

Slim

On 11/9/06 10:13 PM, "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Slim,
> 
> Took a nap just now, thank-you, I feel much better (early show for a sim).
> 
> Just finding a definition of "national debt" without a slant is difficult
> and a source of info without an 'axe to grind' is damn near impossible. I
> form a lot of opinion from reading the Wall Street Journal on a daily basis
> but even that source is suspect in many peoples view.  Here's the least
> biased report I can find on short notice - and it has pictures too!  Ask me
> again tomorrow after work (10 AM) and I'll be more specific.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._public_debt
> 
> The measure of GNP is relatively straight forward.  "National Debt" gets
> trickier depending on what you want to include.  For example, social
> security is often excluded because it is a "pay as you go" item, ie, an IOU,
> and not included.  Include it and things get really scary.
> 
> So where are you guys going with this discussion?  Let me guess, new taxes?
> How about this novel idea - cut spending!  Bush and friends have spent like
> drunken sailors.  You have a plan to turn that around?  Great!
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/9/06, Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you, Dave.  Brad?
>> Slim
>> 
>> On 11/9/06 7:46 PM, "DCLewis1 at aol.com" <DCLewis1 at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Slim & Brad,  Factoids:
>>> 
>>> US GDP end  2005                   $12,455,800,000,000   source
>>> _http://eh.net/dgp/_ (http://eh.net/dgp/)
>>> US Nat  debt   9/30/2005           $ 7,932,709,661,723.50   source
>>> _http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm_
>>> (http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm)
>>> 
>>> Nat Debt/GDP  = 63%               A  small fraction of the GDP?
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>> 
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list

__________________________________________________
Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list