[Rhodes22-list] Pointing

Thu Nov 30 08:41:08 EST 2006

Bill, Wally,

I'm still a little confused about this.  Do you run the lazy sheet to a
snatch block  tacked to the windward rail and cleat it somehow?  Or, do you
rig a barber hauler to the windward rail with a control line to the cockpit?
How much increased sheeting angle can you get?

Thanks.

PT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TN Rhodey" <tnrhodey at hotmail.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing

> Bill,
>
> I have experiemented with barber hauler rig as well. This creates somes
> problems unless you reroute sheet. Once you snatch sheet and pull back you
> will in effect have 3 jib sheets (on lee side) coming into the cockpit.
> Really it would be just one line but it will be doubled up inside shrouds
> and rest of sheet outside the shroud. The other option would be to snatch
> sheet and adjust using the part of line outside shrouds. This would be bad
> idea.
>
> Wally
>
>
> >From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing
> >Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:27:56 -0500
> >
> >"It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
> >racers when they want to move their sails from the standard positions on
> >their boats quickly and efficiently.  With long jib sheets you might not
> >even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle with
> >the snatch block."
> >
> >
> >Bill,
> >
> >That's quite interesting, but I'm not sure exactly what you are talking
> >about here.  Are you using some kind of  Barber hauler to pull the jib
more
> >inboard for a tighter sheeting angle?  If so, I would like to know more.
> >Where exactly do you tack the snatch block and how do you adjust it?
> >
> >PT
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:10 PM
> >Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing
> >
> >
> > > I don't race, so, for me, pointing is mainly an intellectual
curiosity.
> > >
> > > I can point dead into the wind should I choose to do so.  Of course,
at
> > > this heading the wind will push me and my boat backward, so it is not
> > > particularly useful except when backing into a  mooring after slightly
> > > overshooting, or setting up a hove-to.
> > >
> > > As I fall off the wind, the boat goes forward faster and faster.  My
> > > understanding of racing is that you must constantly calculate whether
> > > you should fall further off the wind, and go faster, or point more
> > > directly toward the destination you are trying to reach and go slower.
> > >
> > > It is clear to me that a J-Boat can point more directly into the wind
> > > and go faster than I can go when pointing in the exact same direction.
> > > On the other hand, when the wind dies down, and I unfurl my 175, there
> > > are many points of sail on which I can beat a similarly sized J-boat
> > > that is not flying more sail than I've got.
> > >
> > > I understand that the flatter I can keep my boat, the more speed I
will
> > > develop when sailing in any direction.
> > >
> > > When the 175 genny is unfurled only as far back as the mast, it has
far
> > > less sail exposed to the wind than a 100 genny unfurled to the same
> > > point because of the cut of each sail.  So the 100 genny will go
faster.
> > >
> > > I didn't have enough time on the water this summer to test my snatch
> > > block (remember that one?), but what I wanted to do was to clip the
> > > snatch block onto my windward rail, and pull the genny toward the
> > > windward side of the mast to see what would happen in a pointing
> > > situation.  I'll try it next year unless someone already knows it
won't
> > > help.
> > >
> > > It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
> > > racers when they want to move their sails from the standard positions
on
> > > their boats quickly and efficiently.  With long jib sheets you might
not
> > > even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle
with
> > > the snatch block.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > > TN Rhodey wrote:
> > > > Rex,
> > > >
> > > > I race single handed as well. If you plan ahead rerouting jib sheets
> > > > is not a big deal. I don't race with pop-top up. I can secure tiller
> > > > and walk forward to make the change in a few seconds. I am not sure
> > > > that you really want a 175 inside the shrouds unless conditions
> > > > require furling anyway. In that case sheeting inside provides better
> > > > angles and would be worth rerouting sheets. I would think furling
the
> > > > 175 just so you can sheet inside shrouds would actually slow you
down
> > > > overall. Also add a vang. Proper use of vang and traveler will help
> > > > you sail flatter in windier conditions. The biggest thing I missed
> > > > with crew was the added rail weight. Also do you have a tiller
> > > > extension? Most times when racing solo I am sitting forward in the
> > > > cockpit...sometimes on the bench seat and sometimes on the rail.
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> From: Charles Henthorn <rexh at sbcglobal.net>
> > > >> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
> > > >> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:54:51 -0800 (PST)
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks Slim --- forgot to mention I typically single-hand when
> > > >> racing.  Good suggestion but probably would need to start using
some
> > > >> crew if I were to try re-rigging between course changes.
> > > >>      Yes I agree that a slight back-wind of the genoa helps carry
it
> > > >> through to leeward -- if the sheets don't snag on the way.
> > > >>   Rex
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
> > > >>   Rex,
> > > >>
> > > >> I wouldn't try the "double sheet" thing especially if you've been
> >having
> > > >> trouble getting the big 175 to come across without snagging on
> > > >> something.
> > > >> When tacking, I've found that I have to hold the jib sheet until
I've
> > > >> crossed through the eye and let the wind fill up the jib before I
let
> > > >> loose.
> > > >> That usually works unless it's really light air. Another solution
is
> >to
> > > >> simply roll up the jib and pull it back out after you're about.
This
> > > >> can be
> > > >> done pretty fast with experienced crew. It's definitely faster than
> > > >> having
> > > >> a sheet hooked on the bow cleat and someone has to go forward. Also
> > > >> with a
> > > >> little practice you can re-rig the sheets quickly and easily. If
> > > >> you're on
> > > >> a starboard tack, re-rig the starboard (slack) sheet first. Then
when
> > > >> you
> > > >> come about re-rig the other side. You might be sailing with your
pop
> >top
> > > >> down but if not, just FYI, a man of average height can reach the
> > > >> sheets from
> > > >> inside the cabin rather than going forward topside.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hope this helps. Good luck.
> > > >>
> > > >> Slim
> > > >>
> > > >> On 11/28/06 3:20 PM, "Charles Henthorn" wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Anne:
> > > >> > My Rhodes ( 88 recycled by Stan this past spring) is on Freeman
> > > >> Lake, but
> > > >> > I crew for a friend on Eagle Creek many times during the season.
> > > >> I've never
> > > >> > raced on Eagle Creek. They have a large J boat contingent at
Eagle
> > > >> Creek.
> > > >> > Thanks for the invite to crew. We're northwest of Indy and
probably
> > > >> 3 hrs
> > > >> > from KyLake area but if I get a chance to be in your area I'll
give
> > > >> you an
> > > >> > email in advance.
> > > >> > I had had some suggestions to run the rigging to the track inside
> >the
> > > >> > outside shrouds but, with our lake lying in a snake configuration
> > > >> and our
> > > >> > distance courses being layed out around several points and tree
> > > >> lines, our
> > > >> > winds (Murphy's Law is always in play) gust or change
dramatically
> >in
> > > >> > intensity (especially in the spring and fall), having the genoa
> > > >> running
> > > >> > rigging on the inside of the shrouds takes the 'outside' option
> > > >> away when it
> > > >> > might be more effective if the winds are right. Has anyone tried
> > > >> > 'double-rigging' with sheets running both inside and outside the
> > > >> outside
> > > >> > shrouds? I think it could be done if you lighten up on the sheets
> > > >> so you're
> > > >> > not dragging a lot of weight around but, even now, I'm finding it
> > > >> difficult in
> > > >> > light winds to get that big 175 to flow over to the leeward side
on
> > > >> a tack or
> > > >> > gibe without the single set of sheets finding some cleat or port
or
> > > >> chainplate
> > > >> > connection on which to hang up or snag. Before I try it (next
> > > >> spring now with
> > > >> > winter
> > > >> > upon us), maybe someone has tried and found it successful or a
> > > >> complete
> > > >> > failure.
> > > >> > Rex
> > > >> >
> > > >> > anima13 wrote:
> > > >> > Rex,
> > > >> > What lake are you on? Eagle Creek?
> > > >> > I have to admit I sold my Rhodes....but I cannot give up this
list,
> > > >> these
> > > >> > folks.
> > > >> > I went to a bigger boat. I have sailed all winter on my Rhodes.
One
> > > >> year we
> > > >> > sailed
> > > >> > every weekend to Jan 1st and then we were out on Feb 1st.
> > > >> > Racing....I have never raced my Rhodes, except for the KY Lake
> > > >> gathering for
> > > >> > Rhodes
> > > >> > when we used to host a race here. Have to say, and I believe Rik
> > > >> Sandberg
> > > >> > would concur,
> > > >> > I could really point that boat. You might try unfurling just less
> > > >> than the
> > > >> > whole 175%,
> > > >> > like 160% or so.
> > > >> > However, you are not going to point like the Flying Scot, etc.
> > > >> Hence, PHRF!
> > > >> > Wally races his R-22.
> > > >> > I race on a team...race a J-34 now. We have raced together for
> > > >> years. Our
> > > >> > philosophy is to
> > > >> > point hard and make the shortest distance. We sheet that jib in
> > > >> tight as a
> > > >> > drum and our
> > > >> > helmsgal (John's wife Lisa) NEVER takes her eyes off the windex
or
> >the
> > > >> > telltales. She is
> > > >> > not allowed to do ANYthing else. We usually tell her "up" or
"off"
> > > >> so she
> > > >> > does not have to look up
> > > >> > to windex. On our long distance races she gets to rest on the
> > > >> downwind...if
> > > >> > we have enough staff.
> > > >> > We have a 100 mile race in the spring and a 50 miler in the fall.
> > > >> Lots of
> > > >> > folks from Eagle Creek
> > > >> > come here for those. A few were here last weekend and they are
some
> > > >> of our
> > > >> > favorite friends.
> > > >> > Come down and crew with us next year! We are ALWAYS hunting crew.
> > > >> We require
> > > >> > a minimum of 6
> > > >> > for spinnaker. We took 9 on the 100 miler last year and were not
> > > >> crowded!
> > > >> > Too many jobs to do.
> > > >> > Anne
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > >> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Charles
> > > >> Henthorn
> > > >> > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:10 PM
> > > >> > To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
> > > >> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Ann:
> > > >> > Same here (mid-central western Indiana) --- great winds -- raced
> > > >> > Saturday --- but cried all night last night having tarped my boat
> > > >> yesterday.
> > > >> > I would have guessed your season could extend more at Ky Lake
than
> > > >> here.
> > > >> > Do you race your Rhodes. I'm finding I'm very competitive on the
> >runs
> > > >> > but can't seem to get the 175% to point up enough on the reaches.
> > > >> Do you
> > > >> > race and, if so, have you found a way to point up higher than the
> > > >> Santana's
> > > >> > and Flying Scots I try to race against?
> > > >> > Rex
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > anima13 wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Man, did we have a BLOW-OUT weekend!!!!!
> > > >> > Sailed all day Friday and 4 boats rafted up overnight.
> > > >> > Played guitar, sang, ate and drank.
> > > >> > Our friends from Indy came down so that gave it much more of a
> > > >> > party-atmosphere. Sure were some gorgeous days on KY Lake.
> > > >> > That is the lastest we have rafted-up. Our last latest was Nov
1st.
> > > >> > Was cool in the night but the sun was very warm right away in the
> > > >> > morning.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Hope y'all had as great a time as we did.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Anne
> > > >> >
> > > >> > __________________________________________________
> > > >> > Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
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