[Rhodes22-list] Pointing
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Thu Nov 30 11:18:42 EST 2006
Peter,
I have no idea what I'm talking about here.
I don't know what a Barber hauler is. The last time I asked I didn't
understand the answer.
I haven't done it yet--I planned to try last summer, now I'm planning
for next summer.
I did try cross sheeting the jib, but the angles of the rigging were all
wrong, and it didn't work. So I thought of putting a block in a better
place to fly the jib at a tighter sheeting angle, but I never actually
got that far.
Bill Effros
Peter Thorn wrote:
> "It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
> racers when they want to move their sails from the standard positions on
> their boats quickly and efficiently. With long jib sheets you might not
> even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle with
> the snatch block."
>
>
> Bill,
>
> That's quite interesting, but I'm not sure exactly what you are talking
> about here. Are you using some kind of Barber hauler to pull the jib more
> inboard for a tighter sheeting angle? If so, I would like to know more.
> Where exactly do you tack the snatch block and how do you adjust it?
>
> PT
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:10 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing
>
>
>
>> I don't race, so, for me, pointing is mainly an intellectual curiosity.
>>
>> I can point dead into the wind should I choose to do so. Of course, at
>> this heading the wind will push me and my boat backward, so it is not
>> particularly useful except when backing into a mooring after slightly
>> overshooting, or setting up a hove-to.
>>
>> As I fall off the wind, the boat goes forward faster and faster. My
>> understanding of racing is that you must constantly calculate whether
>> you should fall further off the wind, and go faster, or point more
>> directly toward the destination you are trying to reach and go slower.
>>
>> It is clear to me that a J-Boat can point more directly into the wind
>> and go faster than I can go when pointing in the exact same direction.
>> On the other hand, when the wind dies down, and I unfurl my 175, there
>> are many points of sail on which I can beat a similarly sized J-boat
>> that is not flying more sail than I've got.
>>
>> I understand that the flatter I can keep my boat, the more speed I will
>> develop when sailing in any direction.
>>
>> When the 175 genny is unfurled only as far back as the mast, it has far
>> less sail exposed to the wind than a 100 genny unfurled to the same
>> point because of the cut of each sail. So the 100 genny will go faster.
>>
>> I didn't have enough time on the water this summer to test my snatch
>> block (remember that one?), but what I wanted to do was to clip the
>> snatch block onto my windward rail, and pull the genny toward the
>> windward side of the mast to see what would happen in a pointing
>> situation. I'll try it next year unless someone already knows it won't
>> help.
>>
>> It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
>> racers when they want to move their sails from the standard positions on
>> their boats quickly and efficiently. With long jib sheets you might not
>> even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle with
>> the snatch block.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>
>>> Rex,
>>>
>>> I race single handed as well. If you plan ahead rerouting jib sheets
>>> is not a big deal. I don't race with pop-top up. I can secure tiller
>>> and walk forward to make the change in a few seconds. I am not sure
>>> that you really want a 175 inside the shrouds unless conditions
>>> require furling anyway. In that case sheeting inside provides better
>>> angles and would be worth rerouting sheets. I would think furling the
>>> 175 just so you can sheet inside shrouds would actually slow you down
>>> overall. Also add a vang. Proper use of vang and traveler will help
>>> you sail flatter in windier conditions. The biggest thing I missed
>>> with crew was the added rail weight. Also do you have a tiller
>>> extension? Most times when racing solo I am sitting forward in the
>>> cockpit...sometimes on the bench seat and sometimes on the rail.
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Charles Henthorn <rexh at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
>>>> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:54:51 -0800 (PST)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Slim --- forgot to mention I typically single-hand when
>>>> racing. Good suggestion but probably would need to start using some
>>>> crew if I were to try re-rigging between course changes.
>>>> Yes I agree that a slight back-wind of the genoa helps carry it
>>>> through to leeward -- if the sheets don't snag on the way.
>>>> Rex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> Rex,
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't try the "double sheet" thing especially if you've been
>>>>
> having
>
>>>> trouble getting the big 175 to come across without snagging on
>>>> something.
>>>> When tacking, I've found that I have to hold the jib sheet until I've
>>>> crossed through the eye and let the wind fill up the jib before I let
>>>> loose.
>>>> That usually works unless it's really light air. Another solution is to
>>>> simply roll up the jib and pull it back out after you're about. This
>>>> can be
>>>> done pretty fast with experienced crew. It's definitely faster than
>>>> having
>>>> a sheet hooked on the bow cleat and someone has to go forward. Also
>>>> with a
>>>> little practice you can re-rig the sheets quickly and easily. If
>>>> you're on
>>>> a starboard tack, re-rig the starboard (slack) sheet first. Then when
>>>> you
>>>> come about re-rig the other side. You might be sailing with your pop
>>>>
> top
>
>>>> down but if not, just FYI, a man of average height can reach the
>>>> sheets from
>>>> inside the cabin rather than going forward topside.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps. Good luck.
>>>>
>>>> Slim
>>>>
>>>> On 11/28/06 3:20 PM, "Charles Henthorn" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Anne:
>>>>> My Rhodes ( 88 recycled by Stan this past spring) is on Freeman
>>>>>
>>>> Lake, but
>>>>
>>>>> I crew for a friend on Eagle Creek many times during the season.
>>>>>
>>>> I've never
>>>>
>>>>> raced on Eagle Creek. They have a large J boat contingent at Eagle
>>>>>
>>>> Creek.
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the invite to crew. We're northwest of Indy and probably
>>>>>
>>>> 3 hrs
>>>>
>>>>> from KyLake area but if I get a chance to be in your area I'll give
>>>>>
>>>> you an
>>>>
>>>>> email in advance.
>>>>> I had had some suggestions to run the rigging to the track inside the
>>>>> outside shrouds but, with our lake lying in a snake configuration
>>>>>
>>>> and our
>>>>
>>>>> distance courses being layed out around several points and tree
>>>>>
>>>> lines, our
>>>>
>>>>> winds (Murphy's Law is always in play) gust or change dramatically in
>>>>> intensity (especially in the spring and fall), having the genoa
>>>>>
>>>> running
>>>>
>>>>> rigging on the inside of the shrouds takes the 'outside' option
>>>>>
>>>> away when it
>>>>
>>>>> might be more effective if the winds are right. Has anyone tried
>>>>> 'double-rigging' with sheets running both inside and outside the
>>>>>
>>>> outside
>>>>
>>>>> shrouds? I think it could be done if you lighten up on the sheets
>>>>>
>>>> so you're
>>>>
>>>>> not dragging a lot of weight around but, even now, I'm finding it
>>>>>
>>>> difficult in
>>>>
>>>>> light winds to get that big 175 to flow over to the leeward side on
>>>>>
>>>> a tack or
>>>>
>>>>> gibe without the single set of sheets finding some cleat or port or
>>>>>
>>>> chainplate
>>>>
>>>>> connection on which to hang up or snag. Before I try it (next
>>>>>
>>>> spring now with
>>>>
>>>>> winter
>>>>> upon us), maybe someone has tried and found it successful or a
>>>>>
>>>> complete
>>>>
>>>>> failure.
>>>>> Rex
>>>>>
>>>>> anima13 wrote:
>>>>> Rex,
>>>>> What lake are you on? Eagle Creek?
>>>>> I have to admit I sold my Rhodes....but I cannot give up this list,
>>>>>
>>>> these
>>>>
>>>>> folks.
>>>>> I went to a bigger boat. I have sailed all winter on my Rhodes. One
>>>>>
>>>> year we
>>>>
>>>>> sailed
>>>>> every weekend to Jan 1st and then we were out on Feb 1st.
>>>>> Racing....I have never raced my Rhodes, except for the KY Lake
>>>>>
>>>> gathering for
>>>>
>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>> when we used to host a race here. Have to say, and I believe Rik
>>>>>
>>>> Sandberg
>>>>
>>>>> would concur,
>>>>> I could really point that boat. You might try unfurling just less
>>>>>
>>>> than the
>>>>
>>>>> whole 175%,
>>>>> like 160% or so.
>>>>> However, you are not going to point like the Flying Scot, etc.
>>>>>
>>>> Hence, PHRF!
>>>>
>>>>> Wally races his R-22.
>>>>> I race on a team...race a J-34 now. We have raced together for
>>>>>
>>>> years. Our
>>>>
>>>>> philosophy is to
>>>>> point hard and make the shortest distance. We sheet that jib in
>>>>>
>>>> tight as a
>>>>
>>>>> drum and our
>>>>> helmsgal (John's wife Lisa) NEVER takes her eyes off the windex or
>>>>>
> the
>
>>>>> telltales. She is
>>>>> not allowed to do ANYthing else. We usually tell her "up" or "off"
>>>>>
>>>> so she
>>>>
>>>>> does not have to look up
>>>>> to windex. On our long distance races she gets to rest on the
>>>>>
>>>> downwind...if
>>>>
>>>>> we have enough staff.
>>>>> We have a 100 mile race in the spring and a 50 miler in the fall.
>>>>>
>>>> Lots of
>>>>
>>>>> folks from Eagle Creek
>>>>> come here for those. A few were here last weekend and they are some
>>>>>
>>>> of our
>>>>
>>>>> favorite friends.
>>>>> Come down and crew with us next year! We are ALWAYS hunting crew.
>>>>>
>>>> We require
>>>>
>>>>> a minimum of 6
>>>>> for spinnaker. We took 9 on the 100 miler last year and were not
>>>>>
>>>> crowded!
>>>>
>>>>> Too many jobs to do.
>>>>> Anne
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Charles
>>>>>
>>>> Henthorn
>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:10 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ann:
>>>>> Same here (mid-central western Indiana) --- great winds -- raced
>>>>> Saturday --- but cried all night last night having tarped my boat
>>>>>
>>>> yesterday.
>>>>
>>>>> I would have guessed your season could extend more at Ky Lake than
>>>>>
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>>> Do you race your Rhodes. I'm finding I'm very competitive on the runs
>>>>> but can't seem to get the 175% to point up enough on the reaches.
>>>>>
>>>> Do you
>>>>
>>>>> race and, if so, have you found a way to point up higher than the
>>>>>
>>>> Santana's
>>>>
>>>>> and Flying Scots I try to race against?
>>>>> Rex
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> anima13 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Man, did we have a BLOW-OUT weekend!!!!!
>>>>> Sailed all day Friday and 4 boats rafted up overnight.
>>>>> Played guitar, sang, ate and drank.
>>>>> Our friends from Indy came down so that gave it much more of a
>>>>> party-atmosphere. Sure were some gorgeous days on KY Lake.
>>>>> That is the lastest we have rafted-up. Our last latest was Nov 1st.
>>>>> Was cool in the night but the sun was very warm right away in the
>>>>> morning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope y'all had as great a time as we did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anne
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>
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