[Rhodes22-list] Pointing
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Thu Nov 30 21:49:53 EST 2006
My bad.
I was cross sheeting across the deck, not the cockpit. I cross sheet
across the cockpit always.
Bill Effros
Slim wrote:
> Bill,
>
> I don't understand why your cross-sheeting didn't work. I do it all the
> time. Not only does it give you control of the jib from the high side where
> you're sitting, but it also eliminates the need of a winch handle because
> you can "sweat the line" between the winches. The sheet runs through the lee
> jib block then to its winch and then across to the windward winch. You're
> using both winches, right? You adjust the lee jib block along its track to
> the correct sheeting angle and that shouldn't spoil your cross sheeting.
>
> Slim
>
> On 11/30/06 10:18 AM, "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Peter,
>>
>> I have no idea what I'm talking about here.
>>
>> I don't know what a Barber hauler is. The last time I asked I didn't
>> understand the answer.
>>
>> I haven't done it yet--I planned to try last summer, now I'm planning
>> for next summer.
>>
>> I did try cross sheeting the jib, but the angles of the rigging were all
>> wrong, and it didn't work. So I thought of putting a block in a better
>> place to fly the jib at a tighter sheeting angle, but I never actually
>> got that far.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>
>>> "It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
>>> racers when they want to move their sails from the standard positions on
>>> their boats quickly and efficiently. With long jib sheets you might not
>>> even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle with
>>> the snatch block."
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> That's quite interesting, but I'm not sure exactly what you are talking
>>> about here. Are you using some kind of Barber hauler to pull the jib more
>>> inboard for a tighter sheeting angle? If so, I would like to know more.
>>> Where exactly do you tack the snatch block and how do you adjust it?
>>>
>>> PT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:10 PM
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't race, so, for me, pointing is mainly an intellectual curiosity.
>>>>
>>>> I can point dead into the wind should I choose to do so. Of course, at
>>>> this heading the wind will push me and my boat backward, so it is not
>>>> particularly useful except when backing into a mooring after slightly
>>>> overshooting, or setting up a hove-to.
>>>>
>>>> As I fall off the wind, the boat goes forward faster and faster. My
>>>> understanding of racing is that you must constantly calculate whether
>>>> you should fall further off the wind, and go faster, or point more
>>>> directly toward the destination you are trying to reach and go slower.
>>>>
>>>> It is clear to me that a J-Boat can point more directly into the wind
>>>> and go faster than I can go when pointing in the exact same direction.
>>>> On the other hand, when the wind dies down, and I unfurl my 175, there
>>>> are many points of sail on which I can beat a similarly sized J-boat
>>>> that is not flying more sail than I've got.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that the flatter I can keep my boat, the more speed I will
>>>> develop when sailing in any direction.
>>>>
>>>> When the 175 genny is unfurled only as far back as the mast, it has far
>>>> less sail exposed to the wind than a 100 genny unfurled to the same
>>>> point because of the cut of each sail. So the 100 genny will go faster.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't have enough time on the water this summer to test my snatch
>>>> block (remember that one?), but what I wanted to do was to clip the
>>>> snatch block onto my windward rail, and pull the genny toward the
>>>> windward side of the mast to see what would happen in a pointing
>>>> situation. I'll try it next year unless someone already knows it won't
>>>> help.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me a snatch block deployed from somewhere could help the
>>>> racers when they want to move their sails from the standard positions on
>>>> their boats quickly and efficiently. With long jib sheets you might not
>>>> even have to change any of the rigging--just grab it in the middle with
>>>> the snatch block.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Rex,
>>>>>
>>>>> I race single handed as well. If you plan ahead rerouting jib sheets
>>>>> is not a big deal. I don't race with pop-top up. I can secure tiller
>>>>> and walk forward to make the change in a few seconds. I am not sure
>>>>> that you really want a 175 inside the shrouds unless conditions
>>>>> require furling anyway. In that case sheeting inside provides better
>>>>> angles and would be worth rerouting sheets. I would think furling the
>>>>> 175 just so you can sheet inside shrouds would actually slow you down
>>>>> overall. Also add a vang. Proper use of vang and traveler will help
>>>>> you sail flatter in windier conditions. The biggest thing I missed
>>>>> with crew was the added rail weight. Also do you have a tiller
>>>>> extension? Most times when racing solo I am sitting forward in the
>>>>> cockpit...sometimes on the bench seat and sometimes on the rail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Charles Henthorn <rexh at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:54:51 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Slim --- forgot to mention I typically single-hand when
>>>>>> racing. Good suggestion but probably would need to start using some
>>>>>> crew if I were to try re-rigging between course changes.
>>>>>> Yes I agree that a slight back-wind of the genoa helps carry it
>>>>>> through to leeward -- if the sheets don't snag on the way.
>>>>>> Rex
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim <salm at mn.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Rex,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't try the "double sheet" thing especially if you've been
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> having
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> trouble getting the big 175 to come across without snagging on
>>>>>> something.
>>>>>> When tacking, I've found that I have to hold the jib sheet until I've
>>>>>> crossed through the eye and let the wind fill up the jib before I let
>>>>>> loose.
>>>>>> That usually works unless it's really light air. Another solution is to
>>>>>> simply roll up the jib and pull it back out after you're about. This
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>> done pretty fast with experienced crew. It's definitely faster than
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> a sheet hooked on the bow cleat and someone has to go forward. Also
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> little practice you can re-rig the sheets quickly and easily. If
>>>>>> you're on
>>>>>> a starboard tack, re-rig the starboard (slack) sheet first. Then when
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> come about re-rig the other side. You might be sailing with your pop
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> top
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> down but if not, just FYI, a man of average height can reach the
>>>>>> sheets from
>>>>>> inside the cabin rather than going forward topside.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps. Good luck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Slim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/28/06 3:20 PM, "Charles Henthorn" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anne:
>>>>>>> My Rhodes ( 88 recycled by Stan this past spring) is on Freeman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lake, but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I crew for a friend on Eagle Creek many times during the season.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> raced on Eagle Creek. They have a large J boat contingent at Eagle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Creek.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the invite to crew. We're northwest of Indy and probably
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3 hrs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> from KyLake area but if I get a chance to be in your area I'll give
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> you an
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> email in advance.
>>>>>>> I had had some suggestions to run the rigging to the track inside the
>>>>>>> outside shrouds but, with our lake lying in a snake configuration
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and our
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> distance courses being layed out around several points and tree
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> lines, our
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> winds (Murphy's Law is always in play) gust or change dramatically in
>>>>>>> intensity (especially in the spring and fall), having the genoa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> running
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rigging on the inside of the shrouds takes the 'outside' option
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> away when it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> might be more effective if the winds are right. Has anyone tried
>>>>>>> 'double-rigging' with sheets running both inside and outside the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> outside
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> shrouds? I think it could be done if you lighten up on the sheets
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> so you're
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> not dragging a lot of weight around but, even now, I'm finding it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> difficult in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> light winds to get that big 175 to flow over to the leeward side on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> a tack or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gibe without the single set of sheets finding some cleat or port or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> chainplate
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> connection on which to hang up or snag. Before I try it (next
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> spring now with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> winter
>>>>>>> upon us), maybe someone has tried and found it successful or a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> failure.
>>>>>>> Rex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anima13 wrote:
>>>>>>> Rex,
>>>>>>> What lake are you on? Eagle Creek?
>>>>>>> I have to admit I sold my Rhodes....but I cannot give up this list,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> these
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> folks.
>>>>>>> I went to a bigger boat. I have sailed all winter on my Rhodes. One
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> year we
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sailed
>>>>>>> every weekend to Jan 1st and then we were out on Feb 1st.
>>>>>>> Racing....I have never raced my Rhodes, except for the KY Lake
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> gathering for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>> when we used to host a race here. Have to say, and I believe Rik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sandberg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> would concur,
>>>>>>> I could really point that boat. You might try unfurling just less
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> than the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> whole 175%,
>>>>>>> like 160% or so.
>>>>>>> However, you are not going to point like the Flying Scot, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hence, PHRF!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally races his R-22.
>>>>>>> I race on a team...race a J-34 now. We have raced together for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> years. Our
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> philosophy is to
>>>>>>> point hard and make the shortest distance. We sheet that jib in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> tight as a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> drum and our
>>>>>>> helmsgal (John's wife Lisa) NEVER takes her eyes off the windex or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> telltales. She is
>>>>>>> not allowed to do ANYthing else. We usually tell her "up" or "off"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> so she
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> does not have to look up
>>>>>>> to windex. On our long distance races she gets to rest on the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> downwind...if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we have enough staff.
>>>>>>> We have a 100 mile race in the spring and a 50 miler in the fall.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> folks from Eagle Creek
>>>>>>> come here for those. A few were here last weekend and they are some
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of our
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> favorite friends.
>>>>>>> Come down and crew with us next year! We are ALWAYS hunting crew.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> We require
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a minimum of 6
>>>>>>> for spinnaker. We took 9 on the 100 miler last year and were not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> crowded!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Too many jobs to do.
>>>>>>> Anne
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org]On Behalf Of Charles
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Henthorn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:10 PM
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Thanksgiving sailing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ann:
>>>>>>> Same here (mid-central western Indiana) --- great winds -- raced
>>>>>>> Saturday --- but cried all night last night having tarped my boat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> yesterday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would have guessed your season could extend more at Ky Lake than
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you race your Rhodes. I'm finding I'm very competitive on the runs
>>>>>>> but can't seem to get the 175% to point up enough on the reaches.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> race and, if so, have you found a way to point up higher than the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Santana's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and Flying Scots I try to race against?
>>>>>>> Rex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anima13 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Man, did we have a BLOW-OUT weekend!!!!!
>>>>>>> Sailed all day Friday and 4 boats rafted up overnight.
>>>>>>> Played guitar, sang, ate and drank.
>>>>>>> Our friends from Indy came down so that gave it much more of a
>>>>>>> party-atmosphere. Sure were some gorgeous days on KY Lake.
>>>>>>> That is the lastest we have rafted-up. Our last latest was Nov 1st.
>>>>>>> Was cool in the night but the sun was very warm right away in the
>>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope y'all had as great a time as we did.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anne
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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