[Rhodes22-list] Political:Off to Iraq

[Brad Haslett]

Ron,

"Our best hope now is that it does not become the major exporter of
terrorists, the internal supply seems to be pretty good."

The external supply is more the problem.  Most of the insurgents are from
other countries, specifically Iran.  The sectarian violence will continue
regardless but that too is provoked by outsiders.  The enemy has chosen Iraq
as their battlefield and pulling out would result in another Afghanistan
after the Soviets left (remember the Taliban). Engagement with the Middle
East has been our policy since FDR and it resulted in our 'best' ally, a
country with a friendly government and an unfriendly people, creating 14
middle class sons to fly into our buildings. We have in Iran a friendly
population but a very unfriendly government.  How do you engage with a
nutcase who says the Holocaust never happened and Israel should be wiped off
the map?  The entire political dynamics of the Middle East needs to be
changed and we are the primary ones to change it.  The Europeans are too
interested in maintaining their failing socialist policies, but they too
will join us as their radical Islamic cancer continues to manifest itself on
their soil. Long after we're gone, historians can argue the wisdom of
invading Iraq, assuming they're allowed to write history books, but we're
there now and the job is too important to abandon.

Here is what the "leader" of Iran had to say a few days ago:

  -Mr Ahmadinejad called Israel's leaders a "group of terrorists" and
appeared to threaten any country that supports it.

 -"Even if we assume the Holocaust is true, then why should the Palestinians
pay the price for it?"

 -"You imposed a group of terrorists... on the region. It is in your own
interest to distance yourself from these criminals... This is an ultimatum.
Don't complain tomorrow."

 -The "ultimatum" was directed at European states in particular.

 -"We have advised the Europeans that the Americans are far away, but you
are the neighbours of the nations in this region," Mr Ahmadinejad said.

Europe and our other "friends" will be with us in the end, as soon as they
finish their latte.

The Iraqi's have demonstrated in three elections at great risk that they
want self-rule. They ARE capable of achieving it if defended from outside
influence and violence. The Iranian people would love to prosper in a modern
world.  The North Koreans would like a good meal and a hot shower (which is
what worries China so much).  The world is a messy place, always has been.

Brad



On 10/24/06, Ronald Lipton <rlipton at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I explicitly said I was not offering new ideas. What is needed is an
> intelligent policy which considers options rationally, does not depend
> on blind ideology and recognizes errors and corrects them.  There is
> indeed no magic bullet for our problems, but I have no faith in the
> course that has been set and a belief that our arrogance had made
> the world a much more dangerous place for all of us.
>
> I think that you are twisting history - a policy if regime change is
> not the same as
> invasion.  Certainly approval by congress is not a stamp of wisdom -
> they
> should have known enough to question the evidence for WMD - I won
> several bets on the question.  The question of North Korea is different
> and
> more subtle - China clearly needs to play a role.  The threat of
> massive retaliation
> does not warm the hearts of our South Korean allies.  The Bush policy of
> confrontation rather than engagement has not worked, but I would be
> hesitant to criticize them on that point since we are dealing with a
> country
> that does not play by the rules.
>
> What do we do in Iraq?  It's too late for me to solve this one.  I did
> hear a
> fairly convincing argument that the military will continue to increase
> pressure to get out, the loss of morale, casualties, and decrease in
> volunteer
> rate and reenlistments have already hurt.  The retired generals are
> speaking
> out now.  My guess is that we will leave as soon as a minimally stable
> state
> seems viable and hope for the best.  Iraq will not turn into a
> democratic
> island in the mid-east that's pretty clear. Our best hope now is that it
> does not become the major exporter of terrorists, the internal supply
> seems to be pretty good.
>
> Ron
> On Oct 24, 2006, at 9:22 PM, Brad Haslett wrote:
>
> > Common leftest screed (thank-you Bill) , I've read your post twice Ron
> > and
> > still can't find any new ideas.
> >
> > As to North Korea, I believe it was the "negotiations" and appeasement
> > of
> > the previous administration that got us into this mess.  How should we
> > respond?  We have roughly 30,000 of our own troops in harms way on the
> > border (been there since the 50's) plus several million South Koreans.
> >  The
> > North can lob 5000 conventional shells at once and we have to figure
> > out
> > which one contains the nuke.  Yes indeed, what a mess. Our best hope
> > there
> > is help from China. More troops on the ground would only mean more
> > troops
> > killed in the first day. We should think twice about allowing a similar
> > situation with another rouge nation developing again, hence our
> > invasion of
> > Iraq.  After all, regime change was the official policy of the Clinton
> > administration.  Let me repeat this one more time - the authorization
> > to
> > invade Iraq was approved by the Congress.  Of course some will say for
> > political reasons they were duped, but they had access to the same
> > intel - politics as usual.
> >
> > How many Iraqi citizens were killed by Saddam?  A hell of a lot more
> > than
> > by our invasion. How many more will be killed if we leave.  John Kerry
> > estimated less than 300,000 in Vietnam.  He was only off by 3 million.
> >
> > What do you think we should do Ron, pull out and declare victory?
> > Well, if
> > so, why quit at half-measures.  Let's disband the TSA and eliminate
> > the long
> > line at the airports.  After all, we have no enemies from the crazy
> > fringe
> > of the Islamic world, right?  Let's kiss and make up with the French so
> > they'll come to our side and bravely fight, just as they are in their
> > own
> > country right now. Ah yes, those wonderful allies we pissed off.
> > Please
> > remind me who we offended that weren't trading goods with Saddam.
> > Germany,
> > nope!  Russia, nope!  China, silly question!  I forget, help me here,
> > who
> > are these allies again?
> >
> > This war is ugly, they all are.  We went for the right reasons.  What
> > we are
> > seeing now is not unlike Tet in Vietnam.  We won that remember, and
> > then
> > gave the enemy time to regroup at the peace table.  Indeed, history
> > can be a
> > bitch.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/24/06, Ronald Lipton <rlipton at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> New idea?  Better ideas?
> >>
> >> - Did I think invading Iraq was a good idea? NO
> >>   Were there weapons of mass distruction - NO
> >>   Were there real terrorist bases - NO
> >>   Did we give any thought to the internal politics? NO
> >>   Did we alienate our allies by our arrogance? YES.
> >>   Have we crippled our volunteer forces by throwing
> >>      away lives in a worse than useless situation?
> >>
> >>   How many soldiers have been killed? (~2900)
> >>   Maimed - many more
> >>   How many Iraqi civilians?
> >>   How many of their families blame the US and will take up terrorism?
> >>
> >> We have been weakened to the point that we can't
> >> effectively respond to real threats from N. Korea.
> >> God what a mess.
> >>
> >> I don't see any real thought given to actions which gravely
> >> affect the US and the rest of the world.
> >>
> >> I don't want to see this country continue to be run by a group
> >> of idiots and ideologues who seem to be completely disconnected
> >> from reality.  If soldiers are put in harms way there should be a
> >> good reason.  I see nothing but negative consequences.
> >>
> >> Do I have better Ideas?  It's like asking someone pushed out
> >> of a window - how to get  back up there?
> >> Is there any path out of this mess - you tell me, but I believe that
> >> this is the most disastrous administration in the history of this
> >> country.  Nero probably did a worse job for Rome.
> >>
> >> Ron
> >> On Oct 23, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bob,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for the post.  There are letters like this quite often on the
> >> > milblogs I frequent.  Also, I have a co-worker with a Marine son in
> >> > Iraq who
> >> > forwards updates from time to time.  This may be a SHOCK to the
> >> > lefties in
> >> > the world but our military is all volunteer and for the most part
> >> very
> >> > motivated.  The reaction you got on the list was predictable and
> >> not
> >> > unlike
> >> > the reactions from the usual suspects anytime something that doesn't
> >> > fit
> >> > their perceptions gets published.  They get the New York times
> >> version
> >> > of
> >> > reality everyday from someone who's never been out of the Green Zone
> >> > and
> >> > believe that, but gawd forbid they listen to the wisdom of a common
> >> > foot-soldier. No one likes this war, or any war for that matter, but
> >> > this
> >> > kid in the letter pretty much nailed it.  We fight them there now or
> >> > here
> >> > later.  Did you see on the news this evening that youths are burning
> >> > buses
> >> > in France?  Nope?  What kind of youths?  Of course the French can't
> >> say
> >> > it.  Radical Islamists!  Keep your head in the sand folks.  This
> >> ain't
> >> > goin'
> >> > away anytime soon.  We can argue about the methods or the chosen
> >> > battlefield
> >> > but the war declared by them a long time ago.  What was our first
> >> > reaction?  Wear sweaters!
> >> >
> >> > Here's what really pisses me off.  Where are the new ideas?  All I
> >> > hear this
> >> > election cycle is let's tuck tail and run, then hope for the best.
> >> Is
> >> > this
> >> > a strategy? Criticism and disagreement is one thing - attempting
> >> > dialogue
> >> > with, or worse, ignoring enemies who want to cut your head off is
> >> > stupid. Oh
> >> > I forget, cutting off heads is only for old time's sake, until they
> >> > can get
> >> > their WMD programs running again.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Brad
> >> >
> >> > On 10/23/06, Bob Keller <r22yankeeclipper at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Got this from my brother and wanted to pass it on.
> >> >> Bob
> >> >>
> >> >> This is from a co-worker at HP who's son left for Iraq today. This
> >> >> comes
> >> > to
> >> >> me directly from his Dad. I will be getting periodic updates from
> >> him
> >> >> and
> >> >> will forward. I will take the last name off so as to protect his
> >> >> privacy,
> >> >> but forward on, because these brave troops need our continued
> >> support
> >> >> and
> >> >> prayers.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill
> >> >>
> >> >> Everyone,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Well after months and months of yakking about it the day is finally
> >> >> here…well almost here, just have to go to sleep tonight (we'll see
> >> >> about
> >> >> that) and it'll be here tomorrow.  I'm sure pretty much everyone is
> >> >> wondering what I'm thinking right now, what are my feelings, and
> >> all
> >> >> that
> >> >> other stuff…I guess I'm going to be super-cool and spill it for
> >> you,
> >> >> just
> >> >> because I'm that awesome.  :c)
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm ready to get going, and I have been ready since my last visit
> >> to
> >> >> Colorado…sitting around here this last week or so is just awful,
> >> >> waiting
> >> > is
> >> >> never fun…gives you too much time to think, and a lot of the time
> >> >> thinking
> >> >> gets you in trouble.  I am ready to wage this war against
> >> >> militant-Islam,
> >> >> because it is something that absolutely has to be done.  Some look
> >> at
> >> >> Iraq
> >> >> and just see Saddam and WMD and that MY BOSS was wrong to go in
> >> there
> >> >> (btw
> >> >> we found enough WMD to kill everyone in Baghdad, but I guess you
> >> >> didn't
> >> > hear
> >> >> or read about that anywhere, ask me if you really want details…oh,
> >> and
> >> >> Saddam really was a horrible asshole…pardon my language to both my
> >> >> grandmothers…), but it is well past that point…Iraq is the line in
> >> the
> >> > sand
> >> >> between civilized nations and Islamic fascism, because whether you
> >> >> want to
> >> >> believe it or not, there are a large group of people out there who
> >> >> want
> >> > you
> >> >> and everyone else dead unless you convert to their way of thinking.
> >> >> The
> >> >> great thing about Iraq is that all these idiots have decided it is
> >> a
> >> >> lot
> >> >> easier to fight us there than it is to come to the United States
> >> and
> >> >> fight
> >> >> you…which I am fine with, because I'm going to be so horribly well
> >> >> armed
> >> > and
> >> >> armored that I welcome their best shot at destroying everything I
> >> have
> >> >> dedicated my life to defend.
> >> >>
> >> >> While I'm gone I encourage all of you to live it up for me…I can't
> >> do
> >> >> it,
> >> > so
> >> >> you all should do it double for me…take those extra few days off of
> >> >> work,
> >> >> take that trip, try for that double on your dirt bike, fish that
> >> run
> >> >> one
> >> >> more time, let your kid stay up that extra 15 minutes, stay in the
> >> >> duck-blind 15 more minutes after you think the birds have stopped
> >> >> flying,
> >> >> drink that extra drink…I think you get the idea…everyone has that
> >> >> area in
> >> >> their life where they can indulge, so I encourage you all to do it
> >> >> for me.
> >> >> The only thing that I am worried about going into Iraq is letting
> >> my
> >> >> guys
> >> >> down, letting all of you down, and letting my country down; and I
> >> can
> >> >> tell
> >> >> you with all of my heart that it is NOT in my intention to do any
> >> of
> >> >> those
> >> >> things.  I promise you all that I will be careful, but at the same
> >> >> time I
> >> >> promise that I will kick the ever-living CRAP out of anyone that
> >> >> presents
> >> > a
> >> >> threat to me or you...they WILL die, and they'll do it before I do.
> >> >> This
> >> >> war is the most important war that has been fought since WW2,
> >> easily,
> >> >> if
> >> > not
> >> >> more so.  The things that we do tomorrow and in the next five years
> >> >> will
> >> >> shape the world as we know it for centuries to come…if we leave
> >> Iraq
> >> > before
> >> >> we win the fight then all of the western world is in danger, just
> >> >> remember
> >> >> that…and I will elaborate on that fact in the future.  So happy
> >> >> trails to
> >> >> all of you, and I will frequently be in touch, just say a 'lil
> >> prayer
> >> >> for
> >> > me
> >> >> and I'll do alright.
> >> >>
> >> >> God Bless and Love,
> >> >>
> >> >> Matt
> >> >>
> >> >> Matthew
> >> >>
> >> >> 1st Cavalry Division, Ft. Hood TX
> >> >>
> >> >> _________________________________________________________________
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