[Rhodes22-list] Religion:

[Brad Haslett]

Not me Bill, I'm not a Christo-Fascist, I'm a Crisco-Fascist, ie, all
chicken should be deep fried.

Brad


On 10/25/06, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>
> The only remaining rule on this list is that we don't discuss religion.
>
> Are the Christo-Fascists suggesting that we drop this rule?
>
> Please advise.
>
> Bill Effros
>
> Hank wrote:
> > I am forwarding an e-mail from my Uncle Neil, who has lived extensively
> > overseas.  In it, he forwards a column by Stephen Browne.  I believe it
> > succinctly sums up why we have some many problems dealing with the Arab
> > world.  This is not a George Bush issue, it is an American issue as
> every
> > president has tried to deal with Arabs using our logic and way of
> > thinking
> > and it just does not work.
> >
> >
> > Hank
> >
> > I have lived in Iran and Muslim/Arab dominated Eritrea (Ethiopia at the
> > time) and can state that this guy is right on. The only thing he did not
> > cover adequately is the overwhelming inferiority complex most Arabs
> > and Arab
> > governments have. By the way everything he says applies to Iran as
> > well even
> > though they are not Arabs.
> >
> >
> >
> > Neil F. Shearman
> >
> > Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for
> > non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected
> > people," are
> > free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made
> > subject to
> > a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's
> > command
> > that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of
> > equality of
> > rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part
> > of the
> > law that global jihadists are laboring to impose everywhere,
> > ultimately on
> > the entire human race.
> >
> > 9/11/2001 - We Must NEVER Forget!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Observations on Arabs
> >
> > Column   by Stephen Browne - *Sep 29, 2006*
> >
> > **
> >
> > Journalist Jill Carroll is back home now, and
> > *detailing*<http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0814/p01s01-woiq.html>her
> > experiences as a captive of the jihadists in Iraq in the
> > *Christian Science Monitor*.
> >
> > I'm sure the details will prove fascinating, but the upshot of what
> > she has
> > learned is that the Islamists are --- gasp --- different from us!
> > Furthermore, I
> > believe that she's beginning to suspect that they are really not very
> > nice
> > people.
> >
> > Since the beginning of the Iraq phase of this conflict of civilizations,
> > I've experienced the teeth-grinding frustration of watching both pro-
> and
> > anti- Iraq sides make the exact same mistake --- that of supposing
> > that these
> > people are basically Americans in funny costumes. In this respect,
> George
> > Bush and Michael Moore are equally clueless, as Jill Carroll
> > apparently was
> > as well.
> >
> > I went to live and work in Saudi Arabia in 1998, and I "made my year" as
> > expats there put it. That phrase means that I actually stuck out the
> > whole
> > year, instead of "running" from my contract, an occurrence so common
> that
> > you only have to say "he did a runner" to explain why someone isn't
> > showing
> > up for work anymore.
> >
> > And while my experience wasn't nearly as unpleasant as Jill Carroll's, I
> > could have told her a thing or two before she went to Iraq armed with
> her
> > overflowing good will.
> >
> > I went to the Kingdom with a certain sympathy for Arab grievances and a
> > belief that America had earned a lot of hostility from "blowback" from
> > our
> > ham-handed interventionist foreign policy and support for Israel.
> >
> > I came back with the gloomy opinion that over the long run we are
> > going to
> > have to hammer these people hard to get them to quit messing with us.
> >
> > So, with the caveat that one of the first things I learned was that
> > the term
> > "Arab" covers a lot of territory, here are some observations and some
> > tentative conclusions about Arabs, particularly Arabs from the oil
> > states,
> > about why we have misunderstood each other to the point that we are
> > fighting
> > a war with some of them and angering the rest of them. I suspect that
> > many
> > of these also apply to Iranian Islamists, but I have never been there
> and
> > note that Iranians are not Arabs and have a different cultural history.
> >
> > *1) They don't think the same way we do.*
> >
> > No, I mean THEY REALLY DON'T THINK THE SAME WAY WE DO. Yes, yes, I
> > know we
> > are all human and share the same human nature (perhaps the most
> > disastrous
> > mistake of Marxism was the denial of this elementary fact). But within
> > the
> > scope of that shared human nature, there are a lot of different ways
> > to be
> > human.
> >
> > We Americans have a basically open attitude to our fellow human beings
> > and
> > sometimes forget this. Combined with the fact that most Americans are
> > linguistic idiots, we tend to assume that anyone who learns to speak
> > English
> > learns to think like us.
> >
> > *2) When you meet them in just the right circumstances, they are a very
> > likable people.*
> >
> > Arabs are often easy to like, but difficult to respect --- as opposed to
> > Israelis, who are often difficult to like but impossible not to respect.
> >> From their nomadic heritage they have a tradition of generosity and
> > hospitality to guests that warms the heart.
> >
> > Arab shopkeepers have a talent for making you feel guilty that you
> didn't
> > buy anything (once you get past a dislike of having them lay hands on
> > you).
> > Haggling is a social grace with them and when you ask the price, and
> > agree
> > to the first one quoted, they will often come down on the price just
> > out of
> > pity for your social ineptness.
> >
> > This does not in the least affect the fact that no friendship with you
> is
> > ever going to remotely equal the obligations they have for their family,
> > tribe, or the community of the Believers.
> >
> > *3) Their values are fundamentally different from ours; their
> > self-esteem is
> > derived from a different source. *
> >
> > And you know what? Theirs is PHONY. Yes I know, I'm making a cultural
> > value
> > judgment, the cardinal sin when I was a grad student in Anthropology.
> > With
> > us, the most important sources of self-esteem are useful work and the
> > love
> > of a good woman. We value being good at something that requires skill
> > (even
> > a hobby) and being of primary importance to somebody just because you
> are
> > who you are.
> >
> > Work for them is something to be avoided. The basic forms of work:
> making
> > stuff, growing stuff, and moving stuff around, is taken care of by a
> > class
> > of indentured servants, usually non-Arab Muslims from the Third World,
> > and,
> > even today, by outright slaves. The Kingdom is a modern country that
> > abolished slavery in 1967, but old expats have reported seeing slave
> > auctions as late as 1981.
> >
> > On one occasion a student of mine asked me, "Teacher, what do you call
> > a man
> > who can be sold?" (Excellent use of the passive voice, I was proud of
> > him.)
> > I explained, "He is called a slave, the condition is called slavery, the
> > verb is to enslave."
> >
> > Later I had occasion to ask them about the headsman, the fellow who cuts
> > heads and hands off in the chop-chop square in front of the mosque on
> > Fridays. The reason I asked was that from my studies I knew that in
> > tribal
> > societies converting from a tribal or feudal system into a system of
> > common
> > laws, a man condemned to death by a court of law must often be
> > executed by a
> > member of his own tribe or a complete outsider so that the execution
> does
> > not spark a blood feud.
> >
> > In the Kingdom, the headsman is usually a Sudanese. My students
> > explained,
> > "Yes teacher, he's a slave." i.e. he's a person of no importance and
> > therefore outside the web of obligations of vengeance.
> >
> > The point being, in a slave society, work is not honorable (as De
> > Tocqueville pointed out) and cannot be a source of self-worth.
> >
> > "Of conjugal love they know nothing." (Thomas Jefferson on the French
> > aristocracy.) In a land of arranged marriages, where the whole society
> is
> > geared towards a strict segregation of the sexes and women are at least
> > semi-chattels, romantic love is rare --- and greatly desired.
> >
> > In the Kingdom I found a few students with a consuming interest in
> > romantic
> > poetry, whom I had to teach very discretely. Most of them were just
> > obsessed
> > with sex, however. And interestingly, when visiting the West or the
> > fleshpots of Bahrain, they are said to have a tendency to fall in love
> > with
> > the prostitutes they patronize.
> >
> > Without honorable work, romantic love, or any accomplishments not
> > overshadowed by those the West, their sense of self-worth comes from
> > being
> > the possessors of the One True Religion. And Allah doesn't seem to be
> > delivering on his promises of being exalted above the unbelievers these
> > days.
> >
> > On the plus side, they are willing to spare you and absorb you into
> their
> > community as a respected member if you convert to the One True
> > Religion. The
> > Brotherhood of Believers is a reality in the lands of Islam, and while
> it
> > sometimes falls short of the ideal (as does our democratic ideal) it is
> a
> > reality, and in its way admirable.
> >
> > *4) They do not think of obligations as running both ways.*
> >
> > With us, contractual and moral obligations tend to be equal and
> > reciprocal.
> > They don't see it that way. The obligations of the superior to the
> > inferior
> > do not equal those of the inferior to the superior. Obligations within a
> > family or clan outweigh all others.
> >
> > That is why we had to take care not to sit members of the same clan near
> > each other during exams. If one asks another for help, he has to give
> > it, in
> > spite of promises to the school, even when the clansman is a total
> > stranger.
> >
> >
> > Obligations to other believers outweigh all obligations to unbelievers
> > and
> > especially when the believers are fellow-Arabs. And in contracts with
> > unbelievers, the obligations of the Believer to the kaffir are not
> > equal to
> > the obligations of the kaffir to the Believer.
> >
> > Consider that Muslims in England have quite un-self-consciously demanded
> > that a pub near a mosque be shut down as offensive to their religion
> > --- in
> > spite of the fact that the pub had precedence by six hundred years! Or
> > that
> > they demand the right to broadcast the prayer call on loudspeakers in
> > London
> > while it is illegal to have a church at all in the Kingdom.
> >
> > *5) Not only can they not build the infrastructure of a modern
> > society, they
> > can't maintain it either. *
> >
> > The very concept of "maintenance" is foreign to them. This is what
> drives
> > the foreign instructors in the Gulf absolutely mad. The per-capita
> > richest
> > countries in the world resemble Eastern Europe or Latin America in the
> > tackiness and run-down appearance of the buildings and streets.
> >
> > An electronics technician new to the Kingdom once told me how his
> > first job
> > was to inspect a junction box in the desert. He had to pry it open with
> a
> > crowbar as it had evidently not been opened since it had been installed
> > several years earlier.
> >
> > This is expressed in the inshallah philosophy, "If God wills it." A
> > Palestinian friend of mine explained to me that even the weather
> > forecaster
> > will qualify his prediction, "It will rain tomorrow. Inshallah." Or,
> > "I will
> > meet you tomorrow, inshallah." (But God understands that I am a very
> > unreliable person.)
> >
> > I remember giving a pep talk to my students before a crucial exam,
> > "You are
> > all going to pass the exam, right?" "Inshallah teacher." "No, no!" I
> > shouted, "No inshallah. Study!"
> >
> >
> >
> > *6) In warfare, we think they are sneaky cowards and they think we are
> > hypocrites. *
> >
> > In our civilization, when two men get ready to fight, either seriously
> or
> > just "woofing," what do they say? Some variation of "I'm going to kick
> > your
> > butt."
> >
> > Here's what I heard in the Kingdom, "Hey, don't mess with me, or someday
> > you'll get a knife in the back." I'm not saying that wouldn't happen
> > to you
> > in the west, but most men would be ashamed to make a threat of that
> > nature.
> >
> > We don't understand that direct shock battle is not necessarily the
> > law of
> > nature. When overwhelming force is brought to bear on them, they become
> > cringing and obsequious. To put it bluntly, they lie their heads off
> > to get
> > you to turn your back on them.
> >
> > Try to see it from their point of view --- how else do you expect them
> > to act
> > when you have the overwhelming force? You expect them to meet you on
> > equal
> > terms when the situation is so unequal? What other tactics are
> > available but
> > prevarication and delay, followed by a sneak attack?
> >
> > Folks, what we call "terrorism" is quite close to the historically
> normal
> > way of warfare among these people.
> >
> > *7) In rhetoric, they don't mean to be taken seriously and they don't
> > understand when we do. *
> >
> > Thus, an ultimatum is often not taken seriously and reality comes as a
> > shock. Like many other Mediterranean peoples, Arabs don't seem to mind
> > making a scene in public and have a high blown sense of drama.
> >
> > Paul Harvey once described how he had spent the Suez Crisis hiding
> > under the
> > bed in his hotel room because of the blood-curdling radio broadcasts,
> > before
> > he learned that Arabs talk like that when they're arguing over a taxi.
> > "This
> > is my taxi and I will defend it to the death!" "You lie, it's mine and
> > rivers of blood will flow in the street before I give up my taxi!"
> >
> > An Arab will scream at you, get into your personal space and sometimes
> > kick
> > dirt on your shoe --- and then react with utter surprise when an
> American
> > comes up and decks him. "What did I do?" To say the least, this makes
> > negotiations difficult.
> >
> > *8) They don't place the same value on an abstract conception of Truth
> > as we
> > do; they routinely believe things of breathtaking absurdity. *
> >
> > I cannot begin to tell you some of the things I've heard from Gulf
> > Arabs or
> > read in the English language press in the Kingdom. "The Jews want Medina
> > back." (Medina was a Jewish city in the time of the Prophet.) *The
> > Protocols
> > of the Elders of Zion *has been turned into an immensely popular
> > miniseries
> > on Egyptian TV.
> >
> > The 'Blood Libel' (the medieval myth that Jews need the blood of
> > non-Jewish
> > babies to celebrate Passover) is widely reported in the Arab press, and
> > widely believed. Allah will, of course, replenish the oil beneath Arabia
> > when it runs out.
> >
> > I've been assured, by well-educated and otherwise sensible people, that
> > Winston Churchill was Jewish and that Anthony Quinn had been
> > blacklisted and
> > would never work again after making *Lion of the Desert* (just before he
> > made that turkey with Kevin Costner).
> >
> > *9) They do not have the same notion of cause and effect as we do. *
> >
> > This involves some seriously weird implications about other people being
> > responsible for their misery because they ill-wished them. I've read
> > in the
> > English-language press of the Kingdom serious admonitions against using
> > Black Magic to win an advantage in a dispute with a neighbor. The
> > columnist
> > did not deny the efficacy of Black Magic, he just said it's forbidden
> > to use
> > it.
> >
> > On one occasion I was trying to explain the concept of "myth" to them
> > and I
> > used the example of the djinn. I wasn't getting through to them at all
> > and
> > was concerned that I had mangled the pronunciation of the word when it
> > dawned on me that the reason they didn't understand what I was getting
> > at,
> > was that they had no doubt that the djinn were real.
> >
> > *10) We take for granted that we are a dominant civilization still on
> the
> > way up. They are acutely aware that they are a civilization on the
> > skids. *
> >
> > Anyone who looks at the surviving architecture of Moorish Spain can tell
> > that Islamic civilization has seen better days. There was a time when
> > cultural transmission between Islam and the west went overwhelmingly
> from
> > them to us. (Note the recent discoveries of Sufi symbols engraved on the
> > structural members of European cathedrals.)
> >
> > Now the situation is reversed, and it is humiliating for them.
> >
> > *11) We think that everybody has a right to their own point of view;
> they
> > think that that idea is not only self-evidently absurd, but evil. *
> >
> > In the west, and America more than anyplace else, we have internalized
> > the
> > notion that everyone has a right to their own opinion, and that said
> > opinion
> > is perfectly valid for them. When we meet a people who think that that
> > idea
> > is insane and evil, we are sometimes left in the absurd position of
> > defending their stance as "perfectly valid for them."
> >
> > It doesn't work that way for Arabs. God's Truth is laid out in some
> > detail
> > in the Koran, and not to believe it is a sin. Yes, in America you can
> > find
> > lots of Christian Fundamentalists who believe that God will cast you
> into
> > hell for holding the wrong opinions about Him, but even those who
> > would make
> > their religion into an established church seldom desire the level of
> > detailed enforcement as the Kingdom does or the Taliban did.
> >
> > *12) Our civilization is destroying theirs. We cannot share a world in
> > peace. They understand this; we have yet to learn it. *
> >
> > Another culturally-imposed blindness we have is the notion that
> everybody
> > can get along with enough good will. There is absolutely no evidence to
> > support this and a great deal to oppose it.
> >
> > Can the subjugation of women coexist with western civilization and
> > western
> > media ubiquitous throughout the world? Can a pluralistic and tolerant
> > society be governed by Islamic law? Can a modern economy exist where
> > interest is forbidden and many forms of business risk-taking are
> > considered
> > gambling, and thus forbidden?
> >
> > Can a society that educates its young men by a process of rote
> recitation
> > produce critically thinking, technically educated men to build and
> > operate a
> > modern economy? Can you even teach elementary concepts of maintenance
> > to a
> > people who believe that anything that happens is *inshalla *(As God
> wills
> > it)?
> >
> > To compete, or even just survive in the world they must become more
> > like us
> > and less like themselves --- and they know this.
> >
> >
> > *Stephen Browne
> > <http://www.theatlasphere.com/directory/profile.php?id=2487>
> > ** is a writer, editor, and teacher of English as a Second Language and
> > martial arts. He has been living and working in Eastern Europe since
> > 1991,
> > though currently he is at the University of Oklahoma pursuing advanced
> > course work in journalism. He is the founder of the Liberty English
> Camp,
> > held annually in Lithuania, which brings students from all over Eastern
> > Europe for intensive English study using texts important to the
> > history of
> > political liberty and free markets. He also keeps an up-to-date
> > **blog<http://rantsand.blogspot.com/>
> > **.*
> >
> >
> > On 10/25/06, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here's something you didn't read in the mainstream media.   Quds Day
> >> in Iran, is a holiday started by the Ayatollah Khomeini, the  guy who
> >> was in power when our hostages were taken a quarter of a century ago.
> >> Remember, the crisis that was led by the current Iranian 'leader'.
> >> Here is what he had to say leading up to the 'holiday'. - Brad
> >>
> >> President Ahmadinejad gave a series of speeches leading up to and on
> >> Quds Day. At an Iftar address on October 14, he discussed his
> >> "connection with God" and said: "The president of America is like us.
> >> That is, he too is inspired ... but [his] inspiration is of the
> >> satanic kind. Satan gives inspiration to the president of America."
> >>
> >> Mr. Ahmadinejad delivered his Quds Day speech under a banner that
> >> read, "Israel must be wiped off the face of the world." He described
> >> the holiday as "a day for confrontation between the Islamic faith with
> >> the global arrogance."
> >>
> >> In another speech, he said Israel was "doomed" and promised that the
> >> Israeli "regime will be gone, definitely."
> >>
> >> The words "the Zionist regime is a cancerous gland that needs to be
> >> uprooted" were written in a communiqu� from the Iranian Foreign
> >> Ministry in honor of the holiday. Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki
> >> held a meeting for other Islamic countries' ambassadors to Iran and
> >> told them that Israel's existence would be shattered and that death
> >> bells were tolling for the Zionists. At the meeting, the Palestinian
> >> Arab ambassador to Tehran, Salah Zawawi, said, "The day for the
> >> liberation of Quds Day is close at hand."
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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