[Rhodes22-list] Religion: - Is Christianity inherently hostile?

[3drecon at comcast.net]

Brad,
   That donation to the churches is one way the NAZIs were able to ID the Jews in Germany and round them up.  

Philip

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com> 

> Hank, 
> 
> Been there, done that! One of my lovely ex-wives was half German and her 
> mother lived in Bad Tolz. What really pissed my ex-mother-in-law off was she 
> had to contribute taxes to one church or the other. She lives in Sarasota 
> now and contributes to neither. 
> 
> Brad 
> 
> 
> On 10/26/06, Hank wrote: 
> > 
> > You want to see blue laws, you should go to Germany. When I was stationed 
> > there in the early '90s the German stores all closed at 6pm and were 
> > closed 
> > on Sundays. Once a month they were open until 8pm on a Thursday. Very 
> > difficult to get to a store and do shopping. Thank god the PX wasn't 
> > restricted by this! 
> > 
> > Hank 
> > 
> > On 10/26/06, Brad Haslett wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Bill, 
> > > 
> > > On the lighter side, when I moved to Little Rock, Arkansas in 1978 they 
> > > still had 'blue laws'. I was at a Target store on a Sunday and one of 
> > the 
> > > items in the cart was thread. The clerk removed the item and said, "you 
> > > can't buy thread on Sunday." 
> > > 
> > > "What?" 
> > > 
> > > "You can't buy thread on Sunday, you can't buy tools or things that can 
> > be 
> > > used for work." 
> > > 
> > > "OK, can I buy condoms?" 
> > > 
> > > "Yes." 
> > > 
> > > "Good, mine broke and I need to sew together." 
> > > 
> > > Thank Allah, the law was changed and now you can even get a 
> > > scotch-and-water 
> > > in LIT on Sunday. Trust me! 
> > > 
> > > Brad 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 10/26/06, Bill Effros wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > Robert, 
> > > > 
> > > > Please. 
> > > > 
> > > > This piece casts little light. 
> > > > 
> > > > Is Christianity inherently hostile? 
> > > > 
> > > > Christian groups passed a constitutional amendment in this country 
> > > > outlawing alcohol. 
> > > > 
> > > > Some pharmacies refuse to sell birth control pills. 
> > > > 
> > > > Let's not talk religion. 
> > > > 
> > > > You want to talk politics? 
> > > > 
> > > > The cops can confiscate a taxi that contains marijuana. Taxi drivers 
> > > > can refuse to take passengers who are transporting marijuana. Is that 
> > > OK? 
> > > > 
> > > > Is it OK to refuse to take 17 year old passengers with alcohol? 
> > > > 
> > > > How about drunk 18 year olds? 
> > > > 
> > > > How about a guy carrying a gun? 
> > > > 
> > > > Why can mothers take milk on airplanes but not anyone else? 
> > > > 
> > > > That's politics. 
> > > > 
> > > > But suggesting that somebody else's religion is inherently 
> > > > hostile...mixing religion with politics...boy has that led to a lot of 
> > > > trouble. 
> > > > 
> > > > Bill Effros 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Robert Skinner wrote: 
> > > > > Brad, 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Very interesting. As I was contemplating the day, dozing off 
> > > > > last night, I was wondering whether the core tenets of Islam 
> > > > > required continual war on other beliefs, and/or whether sharia 
> > > > > (sp?) law was directly derived fron the quoran, or the result 
> > > > > of "interpretation". 
> > > > > 
> > > > > This piece casts a litle light. I need more. Any experts here? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > /Robert 
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > > > > Brad Haslett wrote: 
> > > > > 
> > > > >> OK, folks, we may disagree on Iraq and most other issues but this 
> > > > should be 
> > > > >> a no-brainer. This article is from Slim's newspaper published this 
> > > > >> morning. Despite Slim's bias against the author, she's been all 
> > over 
> > > > this 
> > > > >> story. How can we stem the growth of Islamic radicalism outside our 
> > > > country 
> > > > >> if we don't have the balls to stop it domestically? This is 
> > PC gone 
> > > > wild. 
> > > > >> As Paul Harvey would say, "and now for the rest of the story." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Brad 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> -------------------- 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> [image: StarTribune.com] 
> > KERSTEN102606 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Last update: October 25, 2006 -- 9:50 PM 
> > > > >> Airport taxi flap about alcohol has deeper significance The airport 
> > > > taxi 
> > > > >> controversy may go deeper than the quandary over whether to 
> > > accommodate 
> > > > >> Somali Muslim cabdrivers who refuse to carry passengers carrying 
> > > > alcohol. 
> > > > >> Behind the scenes, a struggle for power and religious authority is 
> > > > >> apparently playing out. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> *Katherine Kersten,* Star Tribune 
> > > > >> The taxi controversy at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International 
> > > Airport 
> > > > has 
> > > > >> caught the nation's attention. But the dispute may go deeper than 
> > the 
> > > > >> quandary over whether to accommodate Somali Muslim cabdrivers who 
> > > > refuse to 
> > > > >> carry passengers carrying alcohol. Behind the scenes, a struggle 
> > for 
> > > > power 
> > > > >> and religious authority is apparently playing out. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> At the Starbucks coffee shop in Minneapolis' Cedar-Riverside 
> > > > neighborhood, a 
> > > > >> favorite Somali gathering spot, holidaymakers celebrating Eid, the 
> > > end 
> > > > of 
> > > > >> Ramadan, filled the tables on Monday. Several taxis were parked 
> > > > outside. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> An animated circle of Somalis gathered when the question of the 
> > > airport 
> > > > >> controversy was raised. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> "I was surprised and shocked when I heard it was an issue at the 
> > > > airport," 
> > > > >> said Faysal Omar. "Back in Somalia, there was never any problem 
> > with 
> > > > taking 
> > > > >> alcohol in a taxi." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Jama Dirie said, "If a driver doesn't pick up everyone, he should 
> > get 
> > > > his 
> > > > >> license canceled and get kicked out of the airport." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Two of the Somalis present defended the idea that Islam prohibits 
> > > > cabdrivers 
> > > > >> from transporting passengers with alcohol. An argument erupted. The 
> > > > >> consensus seemed to be that only a small number of Somalis object 
> > to 
> > > > >> transporting alcohol. It's a matter of personal opinion, not 
> > Islamic 
> > > > law, 
> > > > >> several men said. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Ahmed Samatar, a nationally recognized expert on Somali society at 
> > > > >> Macalester College, confirmed that view. "There is a general 
> > Islamic 
> > > > >> prohibition against drinking," he said, "but carrying alcohol for 
> > > > people in 
> > > > >> commercial enterprise has never been forbidden. There is no basis 
> > in 
> > > > Somali 
> > > > >> cultural practice or legal tradition for that. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> "This is one of those new concoctions."It is being foisted on the 
> > > > Somali 
> > > > >> community by an inside or outside group," he added. "I do not know 
> > > > who." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> But many Somali drivers at the airport are refusing to carry 
> > > passengers 
> > > > with 
> > > > >> alcohol. When I asked Patrick Hogan, Metropolitan Airports 
> > Commission 
> > > > >> spokesman, for his explanation, he forwarded a fatwa, or religious 
> > > > edict, 
> > > > >> that the MAC had received. The fatwa proclaims that "Islamic 
> > > > jurisprudence" 
> > > > >> prohibits taxi drivers from carrying passengers with alcohol, 
> > > "because 
> > > > it 
> > > > >> involves cooperating in sin according to the Islam." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> The fatwa, dated June 6, 2006, was issued by the "fatwa department" 
> > > of 
> > > > the 
> > > > >> Muslim American Society, Minnesota chapter, and signed by society 
> > > > officials. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> The society is mediating the conflict between the cab drivers and 
> > the 
> > > > MAC. 
> > > > >> That seems odd, since the society itself clearly has a stake in the 
> > > > >> controversy's outcome. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> How did the MAC connect with the society? "The Minnesota Department 
> > > of 
> > > > Human 
> > > > >> Rights recommended them to us to help us figure out how to handle 
> > > this 
> > > > >> problem," Hogan said. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Omar Jamal, director of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center, thinks 
> > he 
> > > > knows 
> > > > >> why the society is promoting a "no-alcohol-carry" agenda with no 
> > > basis 
> > > > in 
> > > > >> Somali culture. "MAS is an Arab group; we Somalis are African, not 
> > > > Arabs," 
> > > > >> he said. "MAS wants to polarize the world, create two camps. I 
> > think 
> > > > they 
> > > > >> are trying to hijack the Somali community for their Middle East 
> > > agenda. 
> > > > They 
> > > > >> look for issues they can capitalize on, like religion, to rally the 
> > > > >> community around. The majority of Somalis oppose this, but they are 
> > > > >> vulnerable because of their social and economic situation." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> *The society* 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> What is the Muslim American Society? In September 2004 the Chicago 
> > > > Tribune 
> > > > >> published an investigative article. The society was incorporated in 
> > > > 1993, 
> > > > >> the paper reported, and is the name under which the U.S. branch of 
> > > the 
> > > > >> Muslim Brotherhood operates. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928 by Hassan 
> > > al-Banna. 
> > > > The 
> > > > >> Tribune described the Brotherhood as "the world's most influential 
> > > > Islamic 
> > > > >> fundamentalist group."Because of its hard-line beliefs, the U.S. 
> > > > Brotherhood 
> > > > >> has been an increasingly divisive force within Islam in America, 
> > > > fueling the 
> > > > >> often bitter struggle between moderate and conservative Muslims," 
> > the 
> > > > paper 
> > > > >> reported. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> The international Muslim Brotherhood "preaches that religion and 
> > > > politics 
> > > > >> cannot be separated and that governments eventually should be 
> > > Islamic," 
> > > > >> according to the Tribune. U.S. members emphasize that they follow 
> > > > American 
> > > > >> laws, but want people here to convert to Islam so that one day a 
> > > > majority 
> > > > >> will support a society governed by Islamic law. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> How are society members to respond when questioned about a Muslim 
> > > > >> Brotherhood connection? The Tribune cites an undated internal memo: 
> > > "If 
> > > > >> asked, 'Are you the Muslim Brothers?' leaders should respond that 
> > > they 
> > > > are 
> > > > >> an independent group called the Muslim American Society." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> The April 2001 issue of the society's magazine, the American 
> > Muslim, 
> > > > lists 
> > > > >> "essential books" for understanding Islam. They include works by 
> > > Hassan 
> > > > >> al-Banna, the Brotherhood's founder, and Sayyid Qutb, one of its 
> > most 
> > > > >> violent theoreticians. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Here's the flavor of these authors' writings: 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> "Always cherish the intention of jihad and the desire for martyrdom 
> > > in 
> > > > the 
> > > > >> Way of Allah, and actually prepare yourself for that," wrote 
> > > Al-Banna. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Osama bin Laden relied heavily on Qutb in formulating his world 
> > view, 
> > > > >> according to the 9/11 Commission. Qutb had "an enormous loathing of 
> > > > Western 
> > > > >> society and history," states the commission's report. He taught 
> > that 
> > > > "no 
> > > > >> middle ground exists" in the "struggle between God and Satan." All 
> > > > Muslims 
> > > > >> must therefore take up arms in this fight, he said. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Hassan Mohamud is vice president of the society's Minnesota 
> > chapter. 
> > > > The 
> > > > >> society is independent and has no connection with the Muslim 
> > > > Brotherhood, he 
> > > > >> said. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> The Minnesota chapter's website, however, states that the 
> > > > organization's 
> > > > >> roots lie in the Islamic revival movement that "brought the call of 
> > > > Islam to 
> > > > >> Muslim masses ... to reestablish Islam as a total way of life." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Mohamud says the society has three goals: to present the "real 
> > image" 
> > > > of 
> > > > >> Islam in American society, to preserve the identity of Muslims here 
> > > and 
> > > > to 
> > > > >> "make that identity fit without having clashes between cultures and 
> > > > laws." 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> He emphasizes, however, that Muslims must follow shari'a, or 
> > Islamic 
> > > > law, in 
> > > > >> every aspect of their lives. "There are two conflicting systems 
> > here 
> > > -- 
> > > > two 
> > > > >> ways of life -- that want to live in the same place and respect 
> > each 
> > > > other," 
> > > > >> he says. The society aims to facilitate conciliation between the 
> > two. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Mohamud adds that Americans need to learn about Islamic law because 
> > > the 
> > > > >> Muslim population here is growing. That's why the proposed two-tier 
> > > > system 
> > > > >> for airport cabdrivers is important, he says. It could become a 
> > > > national 
> > > > >> model for accommodating Islam in areas ranging from housing to 
> > > > contractual 
> > > > >> arrangements to the workplace. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> MAC officials will hold another meeting today about the airport 
> > > > controversy, 
> > > > >> and Mohamud says he will try to revive the two-tiered pilot project 
> > > for 
> > > > >> taxis. Whatever the meeting's outcome, we now have reason to 
> > believe 
> > > > that 
> > > > >> the issue is only a prologue to a larger drama playing out in 
> > > Minnesota 
> > > > and 
> > > > >> the United States. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Katherine Kersten . kkersten at startribune.com 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> (c)2006 Star Tribune. All rights reserved. 
> > > > >> 
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