[Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
TN Rhodey
tnrhodey at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 5 09:09:14 EDT 2007
Brad, And you say you don't have a pair of rose colored glasses....As usual
you never answered my question. I freely admitted I hadn't been following
this closely. This is not a matter of seeing what you or I want to see. So I
did a quick check and the facts are simple....
First you are wrong about mass AG firings starting will Clinton. A quick
check does confirm that new Presidents have been firing AGs going back to at
least Reagan. It looks like Carter and good old Ike had some firings as well
but nothing like the mass numbers since Reagan. Nixon had his own issues
with AGs. Since Reagan it has been routine for 80 or more AGs to be
dismissed with-in the first 2 years of President's term. Poor old
Bill....people just love to blame him for everything. LOL
The issue seems to be more a matter of timing, motivation, and the
administration's BS response to the public. The reasons cited for dismissals
was "poor performance". A quick review of the facts shows this was not true.
Internal Emails and pdfs of recent testimony are all on line. It is also
clear these firings were discussed with Gonzales prior to Gonzales becoming
AG. It is also clear that the AG provided misleading information to the
Senate. It is also clear the the administration wanted to fire the AG over
Libby trial.
This might have been much ado about nothing if they didn't initially fire
the AGs and then follow up with annouincement that this was do to poor
performance. Of course the fired AGs complained. Wouldn't you? Being fired
is bad enough but go ahead and tell the world the real reason not a lie.
This administration has a history of providing bad information. Why our
President's ratings aren't even lower is beyond me.
Google is your friend. My sources.. Justive Department site, WIKI, and CNN.
Note CNN and WIKI provided the link to actual emails and PDFs of testimony.
I did not read any editorials....I want facts not opinions.
No spin Brad. Kind of like Dragnet...nothing but the facts. If I have the
facts wrong set me straight.
Wally
>From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
>Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:37:30 -0500
>
>Wally,
>
>You see what you want to see. This is much to do about nothing! Do your
>homework and prove me wrong. The facts are what they are, your spin sir.
>
>Brad
>
>On 4/4/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Brad,
> >
> > What?.....This editorial really doesn't address the coment in my
> > email.....I
> > will do some checking but I think you are wrong about this starting with
> > Clinton. I don't think anyone is saying that Clinto did not fire AGs. I
> > just
> > don't think it started with the Clinton's. You post doesn't shed any
>light
> > in either direction. - Wally
> >
> >
> > >From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
> > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:08:47 -0500
> > >
> > >Wally,
> > >
> > >This is a 'tempest in a teapot', something, anything, to run
>interference
> > >during the last two years of a lame duck Presidency. Here is an
> > editorial
> > >from the WSJ on the subject.
> > >
> > >Brad
> > >
> > >---------------
> > >
> > >*The Hubbell Standard*
> > >Hillary Clinton knows all about sacking U.S. Attorneys.
> > >
> > >*Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:01 a.m.*
> > >
> > >Congressional Democrats are in full cry over the news this week that
>the
> > >Administration's decision to fire eight U.S. Attorneys originated
> > >from--gasp--the White House. Senator Hillary Clinton joined the fun
> > >yesterday, blaming President Bush for "the politicization of our
> > >prosecutorial system." Oh, my.
> > >
> > >As it happens, Mrs. Clinton is just the Senator to walk point on this
> > issue
> > >of dismissing U.S. attorneys because she has direct personal
>experience.
> > In
> > >any Congressional probe of the matter, we'd suggest she call herself as
> > the
> > >first witness--and bring along Webster Hubbell as her chief counsel.
> > >
> > >As everyone once knew but has tried to forget, Mr. Hubbell was a former
> > >partner of Mrs. Clinton at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock who later
> > went
> > >to jail for mail fraud and tax evasion. He was also Bill and Hillary
> > >Clinton's choice as Associate Attorney General in the Justice
>Department
> > >when Janet Reno, his nominal superior, simultaneously fired all 93 U.S.
> > >Attorneys in March 1993. Ms. Reno--or Mr. Hubbell--gave them 10 days to
> > >move
> > >out of their offices.
> > >
> > >At the time, President Clinton presented the move as something
>perfectly
> > >ordinary: "All those people are routinely replaced," he told reporters,
> > >"and
> > >I have not done anything differently." In fact, the dismissals were
> > >unprecedented: Previous Presidents, including Ronald Reagan and Jimmy
> > >Carter, had both retained holdovers from the previous Administration
>and
> > >only replaced them gradually as their tenures expired. This allowed
> > >continuity of leadership within the U.S. Attorney offices during the
> > >transition.
> > >
> > >Equally extraordinary were the politics at play in the firings. At the
> > >time,
> > >Jay Stephens, then U.S. Attorney in the District of Columbia, was
> > >investigating then Ways and Means Chairman Dan Rostenkowski, and was
> > >"within
> > >30 days" of making a decision on an indictment. Mr. Rostenkowski, who
>was
> > >shepherding the Clinton's economic program through Congress, eventually
> > >went
> > >to jail on mail fraud charges and was later pardoned by Mr. Clinton.
> > >
> > >Also at the time, allegations concerning some of the Clintons'
>Whitewater
> > >dealings were coming to a head. By dismissing all 93 U.S. Attorneys at
> > >once,
> > >the Clintons conveniently cleared the decks to appoint "Friend of Bill"
> > >Paula Casey as the U.S. Attorney for Little Rock. Ms. Casey never did
> > bring
> > >any big Whitewater indictments, and she rejected information from
>another
> > >FOB, David Hale, on the business practices of the Arkansas elite
> > including
> > >Mr. Clinton. When it comes to "politicizing" Justice, in short, the
>Bush
> > >White House is full of amateurs compared to the Clintons.
> > >
> > > And it may be this very amateurism that explains how the current
> > >Administration has managed to turn this routine issue of replacing
> > >Presidential appointees into a political fiasco. There was nothing
>wrong
> > >with replacing the eight Attorneys, all of whom serve at the
>President's
> > >pleasure. Prosecutors deserve supervision like any other executive
>branch
> > >appointees.
> > >
> > >The supposed scandal this week is that Mr. Bush had been informed last
> > fall
> > >that some U.S. Attorneys had been less than vigorous in pursuing
> > >voter-fraud
> > >cases and that the President had made the point to Attorney General
> > Alberto
> > >Gonzales. Voter fraud strikes at the heart of democratic institutions,
> > and
> > >it was entirely appropriate for Mr. Bush--or any President--to insist
> > that
> > >his appointees act energetically against it.
> > >
> > >Take sacked U.S. Attorney John McKay from Washington state. In 2004,
>the
> > >Governor's race was decided in favor of Democrat Christine Gregoire by
> > 129
> > >votes on a third recount. As the Seattle Post-Intelligencer and other
> > media
> > >outlets reported, some of the "voters" were deceased, others were
> > >registered
> > >in storage-rental facilities, and still others were convicted felons.
> > More
> > >than 100 ballots were "discovered" in a Seattle warehouse. None of this
> > >constitutes proof that the election was stolen. But it should have been
> > >enough to prompt Mr. McKay, a Democrat, to investigate, something he
> > >declined to do, apparently on grounds that he had better things to do.
> > >
> > >In New Mexico, another state in which recent elections have been
>decided
> > by
> > >razor thin margins, U.S. Attorney David Iglesias did establish a voter
> > >fraud
> > >task force in 2004. But it lasted all of 10 weeks before closing its
> > doors,
> > >despite evidence of irregularities by the likes of the Association of
> > >Community Organizations for Reform Now, or Acorn. As our John Fund
> > reported
> > >at the time, Acorn's director Matt Henderson refused to answer
>questions
> > in
> > >court about whether his group had illegally made copies of voter
> > >registration cards in the run-up to the 2004 election.
> > >
> > > As for some of the other fired Attorneys, at least one of their
> > >dismissals
> > >seemed to owe to differences with the Administration about the death
> > >penalty, another to questions about the Attorney's managerial skills.
>Not
> > >surprisingly, the dismissed Attorneys are insisting their dismissals
>were
> > >unfair, and perhaps in some cases they were. It would not be the first
> > time
> > >in history that a dismissed employee did not take kindly to his firing,
> > nor
> > >would it be the first in which an employer sacked the wrong person. No
> > >question, the Justice Department and White House have botched the
> > handling
> > >of this issue from start to finish. But what we don't have here is any
> > >serious evidence that the Administration has acted improperly or to
> > protect
> > >some of its friends. If Democrats want to understand what a real abuse
>of
> > >power looks like, they can always ask the junior Senator from New York.
> > >
> > >On 4/4/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Brad,
> > > >
> > > > Of course the AGs serve at the President's descrection however I
>think
> > >you
> > > > might be wrong about the firings/replacement starting with Clinton.
>I
> > > > thought the AG firings started at least as far back as Reagan and
>was
> > >then
> > > > followed by Bush and Clinton. I thought W's issues have more to do
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > timing....if he would of done this in the first year or so it would
> > have
> > > > merely followed precedent ...by waiting he left the door open to
> > > > criticism.
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
> > > > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:26:04 -0600
> > > > >
> > > > >Wally,
> > > > >
> > > > >AG's serve at the President's discretion. Clinton wholesale
> > replacing
> > > > ALL
> > > > >of them at once was a first. The press at the time barely mentioned
> > it.
> > > > >Bush
> > > > >replaced 8 out of almost 100. Big deal. This is a huge non-story
> > that
> > > > >ranks right up there with the one about whats-her-name dying, you
> > know
> > > > the
> > > > >one, that blonde chick with the big hooters.
> > > > >
> > > > >I've been tied down with airplane hangar issues and taxes but plan
>to
> > >get
> > > > >on
> > > > >the lake soon. I haven't bothered to look and see if the front
>that
> > > > passed
> > > > >here last night has made it past you, but it is chilly this
>morning.
> > >At
> > > > >least there's some wind.
> > > > >
> > > > >Brad
> > > > >
> > > > >On 4/4/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The sailing here has been great the last few days!!! I have
>been
> > > > trying
> > > > > > NOT
> > > > > > to follow the AG firings but doesn't every President do the same
> > >thing
> > > > > > Clinton did? I thought this was pretty standard when a new pres
> > came
> > > > > > in.....this may be a matter of bad timing? Wally
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Speaking of politicians.
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:29:24 -0600
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Rummy,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Speaking of amnesia, last Sunday we had George Stephanopoulos
>on
> > >his
> > > > >ABC
> > > > > > >news show discussing the firing of eight Attorney Generals, a
> > > > non-event
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > >there ever was one, and little Georgie keeps a straight face
> > >through
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >whole thing. What a fine piece of acting. Did George share
>his
> > > > > > experience
> > > > > > >as spokesperson for the Clinton administration explaining the
> > >firing
> > > > of
> > > > > > >all,
> > > > > > >every single friggin' AG in the US, including the one in Little
> > >Rock
> > > > > > >investigating Whitewater? No, he continued on, sure that most
>of
> > >the
> > > > > > >country is too stupid to know or care. He was right. Want to
>know
> > >how
> > > > > > much
> > > > > > >press coverage that got when it happened? About 20 seconds on
> > one
> > > > > > network.
> > > > > > >Fair and balanced?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Brad
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On 4/4/07, R22RumRunner at aol.com <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Breaking News
> > > > > > > > Scientists Study Memory Loss Among Politicians
> > > > > > > > Near-amnesia Reaching Epidemic Proportions, Experts Say
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > An "unprecedented epidemic of memory loss" is
> > > > afflicting America's
> > > > > > > > politicians, making it virtually impossible for them to
> > >remember
> > > > >key
> > > > > > > > phone
> > > > > > > > conversations, meetings, and memos, a spokesman for the
> > world's
> > > > > > leading
> > > > > > > > brain
> > > > > > > > scientists said today.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The spokesman, Dr. Hiroshi Kyosuke of the University of
> > Tokyo,
> > >is
> > > > >one
> > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > over four hundred eminent brain scientists who have gathered
> > in
> > > > >Oslo,
> > > > > > > > Norway
> > > > > > > > this week for a high-level research conference to probe the
> > > > recent
> > > > > > > > phenomenon
> > > > > > > > of memory loss that has plagued the nation's politicians.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The question at hand is this: why are politicians so good
>at
> > > > > > >remembering
> > > > > > > > contributors' names and phone numbers but so bad at
> > remembering
> > > > > > > > everything else?
> > > > > > > > " Dr. Kyosuke said.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Over the course of the conference, brain scientists have
> > > > presented
> > > > > > > > research
> > > > > > > > papers on a variety of subjects related to memory loss,
>such
> > as
> > > > > > former
> > > > > > > > New
> > > > > > > > York mayor Rudolph Giuliani's inability to remember a
> > briefing
> > >he
> > > > > > > > received
> > > > > > > > about former police commissioner Bernard Kerik's possible
> > ties
> > >to
> > > > > > > > organized
> > > > > > > > crime.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "That seems like the sort of thing that a normal human
> > > > brain would
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > difficulty remembering," Dr. Kyosuke said. "What we are
> > >learning
> > > > at
> > > > > > >this
> > > > > > > > conference is that when it comes to politicians' brains, we
> > >have
> > > > so
> > > > > > >much
> > > > > > > > more to
> > > > > > > > learn."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Monday, a full day of the conference was devoted to a
> > paper
> > > > > > >entitled,
> > > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > The Neuroscience of Scooter Libby," followed by a keynote
> > >address
> > > > > > given
> > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > While many attendees considered Mr. Gonzales' speech a
> > >highpoint
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > conference, the Attorney General offered a different
> > assessment:
> > > > "I
> > > > > > >have
> > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > recollection of it."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Elsewhere, President Bush said he would devote the
>remainder
> > of
> > > > his
> > > > > > >term
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > fighting global warming, adding, "April Fools!"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at
> > > > > > > > http://www.aol.com.
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