[Rhodes22-list] PHRF racing

[Peter Thorn]

Bill,

You are too clever.   Remind me not to play poker with you.  It just would
not cross my mind to "sandbag" the rating with a 175 to try to boost the 155
rating, if that is what you are suggesting.  I try to win EVERY race I enter
and don't think about manipulating the rating system for future wins.  I
would also trade favorable windshifts for all the 175 racing sails you could
offer me.  Preparation is important, but there's a lot more to success than
boatspeed provides.

NC-PHRF rated Raven 276 for the jib and main fleet (IMF, no spinnaker) with
a 155 (subtract 9 seconds for 175).  Although I think that's generous for
R22, many of the boats we may compete with have PHRF numbers 100-150
points lower.  IMHO, PHRF racing with more than a 100 point spread is not
serious
racing.  PHRF is popular, fun, and anyone with a sailboat can participate -- 
but
it's not a very accurate test of sailing skill.  For a true test of sailing
skill I much prefer one-design racing and still race my Tanzer 16 in the
SAYRA circuit.  PHRF *assumes* all boats are sailed by good skippers.  That
statement alone ought to raise some flags for anyone
thinking about it.  The PHRF approach to dealing with a constant winner is
to
de-rate the boat so others can win too.   It's Politically Correct to allow
everyone a chance to win, right?  Sheesh....

I bought Raven because it's a great trailer cruiser.  Racing it is like
taking the family sedan to the dragstrip.  That too could be fun.

PT








----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Raven 155.pdf


> Peter,
>
> I agree with you with regard to Wally's comments.  I don't know anymore
> if I ever responded directly to him.
>
> My suggestion was a bit different.  Because the boat is sold mainly to
> cruisers, and most of those who do race it, do so poorly, I suspect
> everyone gets a high PHRF number to start with.  Furthermore, I suspect
> that the race committees don't handicap the 175 properly, but since the
> cruisers don't know how to use it anyhow, they fail to ever win with
> what should certainly be a faster sail in some conditions.
>
> The racers don't want to give up the extra 9 seconds, so they buy and
> campaign 155s.  But what if they had both sails, and used one in some
> conditions and the other in other conditions?  Could they win more races
> total than they would if they raced the 155 all of the time?
>
> But, no racer has a 175 designed for racing rather than cruising.  What
> if we built a 175 racing sail?  What would it look like?  When should it
> be used?  What would it cost?  Could it overcome the 9 second penalty?
>
> If you drive down your PHRF (which I'm sure you will do) you might not
> be willing to try this, but if you design and build a 175 racing sail,
> and campaign it before you drive down your PHRF, that's like not having
> a 9 second penalty on the lower PHRF you will soon have to race
> against.  You should still be able win, because the 175 shouldn't drive
> down your pre-penalty PHRF.  And if you don't win with the 175, you will
> still have a high PHRF when you start to campaign your 155.
>
> But if you do win with the 175, will the committee increase your 175
> penalty or decrease the basis PHRF?  Either way, you've got the sail to
> answer the decision they make.
>
> I understand your visibility problems with the 175, but not the line
> snagging problems.  There doesn't have to be very much wind at all to
> keep the lines taut at all times.  I fully release the Genoa sheet very
> late--always well after the boom has crossed the cockpit.  Prior to that
> I remain in a fast hove-to attitude until all lines and sails are under
> control.  I can heave-to at 3-4 kts before releasing the Genny, which at
> that point has it's clew at 100%, just past the now windward forward
> stay.  No line can snag on the windward side, and there is a lot of
> pressure on the Genny on the leeward side, so nothing snags there,
> either, when I release the sheet.  With one sheet in each hand, release
> the one, pull in the other, wrap around the winch--when the timing is
> right, no need to use a winch.  Fast and Clean.
>
> To quote Stan: "Let the Wind Do The Work".
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> Peter Thorn wrote:
> > Bill, Wally and all~
> >
> > Attached is a sketch of Raven's new 155 headsail provided by Dan Calore
of
> > (Cruising Direct Sails).  The sail hasn't arrived yet, but so far I am
quite
> > pleased with the price and service at CD Sails.  The sail was designed
by a
> > North Sails designer in San Diego, who carefully attended to my
concerns.
> >
> > To respond to Bill about 175 vs. 155, I really don't have anything to
add to
> > Wally's comments and think he nailed his response pretty well.  I
purchased
> > the sail to race at NYRA in New Bern, NC and I think it will be just
dandy
> > for that purpose.  I do not want to give up 9 seconds/mile rating for an
old
> > 175 sail that probably won't point or tack as well as this one in medium
> > air.
> >
> > The opening photo on General Boats website shows a R22 sailing with a
> > standard main and a high clew headsail.  That sail is much more like
this
> > one than the decksweeping 175 that came with Raven.  A few advantages:
1)
> > you can see to leeward and see under the sail (I often sit to leeward to
> > observe headsail telltales and like to see to leeward under the 175), 2)
> > the high clew will hold the sheets up higher during a tack -- hopefully
they
> > won't snag as much on rigging etc. during tacking, and 3) more area of
the
> > sail is up higher where it overlaps the main.  This sail was cut to
maximum
> > luff for maximum unpenalized legal area.
> >
> > Commenting on Dan Snyder's red 175 headsail in the picture someone
recently
> > reposted:  that sail looks great!  The furler goes all the way up the
> > forestay, as also does the luff of the sail.   I've seen too many
furlers
> > and headsails that leave significant amounts of luff sail area unused.
PHRF
> > raters measure only LP, and just assume every sailor would use maximum
luff
> > area, but that's usually not the case.
> >
> > The North design sketch (pdf attached) shows the mold patterns the
designer
> > uses.  The sketch makes it look like a crosscut, but it's really a
> > tri-radial.  These are not the cloth cut patterns, but "molds" used in
the
> > abstract design process to form the sail.  The actual sail is cut as a
> > tri-radial.
> >
> > It will be a while before Raven's mast is stepped again and the sail is
> > fitted.  I'll let you know how this turns out.
> >
> > PT
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Name: Raven 155.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 56450 bytes Desc: not
available
> > Url:
http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attch/200702/22/Raven155.pdf
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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