[Rhodes22-list] Flat Tax Anyone? What is fair Dave(political rant)

[Geankoplis]

Always good to hear from the other side. "
To quote Rodney "Caint we all just get along?"
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Brad Haslett
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:04 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Flat Tax Anyone? What is fair Dave(political
rant)

Chris wrote:

"If the system steals all their wealth then I guess those guys won't bother
to earn their
vast sums of money."

Precisely!  That is exactly what happened when marginal tax rates were in
the 70 to 90 per cent range.  That, and people got involved in sophisticated
tax dodging schemes.  Our current code is far more complicated than
necessary because of all the tinkering done over the years to achieve
various social aims.  Under a flat tax, the top 20% of earners will still
pay over 80% of the total tax collected. Those 10,000 square foot McMansions
won't be subsidized and driving a leased Hummer to work won't make much
sense either.  JFK said it best when he explained why he was cutting
marginal rates, "a rising tide raises all boats."

If the ultimate goal of a nations tax system is to achieve equal incomes for
all,  you get Cuba, North Korea, and a few other third world countries.
Every other industrialized nation interested in growing their economy has
given-up on such foolishness.

Brad


On 1/14/07, Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>        There seems too much hand wringing about the unfair taxes, the
> crushing burden of those taxes on the wealthy.  I agree with you, isn't
> wealth the reward?  Didn't the system benefit those wealthy people?  If
> that
> system exist to reward these people then why shouldn't they pay more to
> support it?  They have more to loose than the little guy.  If the system
> steals all their wealth then I guess those guys won't bother to earn their
> vast sums of money.  People can complain all they want but their actions
> speak louder than words.  If the amount of taxes someone pays is more
> important than what they make, let them work minimum wage, an obvious
> luxurious level of existence that should be suppressed as it is more money
> than someone really needs.
>
> Chris the tax payer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of DCLewis1 at aol.com
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:29 PM
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Flat Tax Anyone? Tossing ball back to
> Slim(political rant)
>
>
> Interesting that Ed thinks 36% tax is an oppressive tax rate (and that's
> the
> max rate, not on your gross, its after deductions).  Look at the
> roads  you
> travel, the ATC, national security, public health, the commerce
> infrastructure, etc - seems like a one time good deal to me.
>
> For those of you who worry that you're paying school taxes for other
> peoples
> kids, ask yourself who is going to be paying into the Social
> Security  fund
> on your behalf 10 years from now - it's those kids.  You better hope
> they're
> educated and have good jobs, their Soc Security deposits are
> going  straight
>
> to you.
>
> Further, while Ed makes a good point regarding founders that begin and
> develop companies, I suggest they are likely a small fraction of the 1%
> under
> discussion.  I would encourage you to consider the real 1% - consider the
> Grasso'
> s, who didn't start, found, begin or develop anything he just got
> the  NYSE
> to
> give him an egregious pay package.  Or Nardelli of Home Depot,
> or  Skilling
> of Enron, or Conrad Black accused of looting the Tribune, or the
> guys  that
> looted Tyco, or McKinnel of Pfizer, or Immelt of GE, or  Waggoner of  GM,
> or
> Ford
> of Ford......  Lets cut out the mythology and deal with cases,  and there
> are
> a ton of cases, and in all those cases the MBAs that won the water  cooler
> wars stepped up to run major corporations and made out like bandits -
> that's
> the real story and that's the real 1%.  I can't think of a single  S&P 500
> corporation that's run by it founder.  And I respectfully  suggest that
> the
> MBAs
> that win the water cooler wars are no more entitled to  special tax
> consideration by society than anyone else - they are not founders,  they
> are
> watch
> standers, and there is a difference.
>
> Regarding founders: If you do found and develop a public company, you make
> out like a bandit even with the current tax code - and I don't begrudge
> that
>
> one  bit.  But you reasonably make out so incredibly well that even after
> taxes
> you are incredibly well off.  Consider Phil Knight, the guy who founded
> Nike
> - I think he's the 48th richest guy in the US even after the current
> taxes,
>
> and that's fine but he doesn't need a change in the tax code to help him
> out
>
> he's doing very well thank you.  Consider Bill Gates, I think the richest
> guy in the US, money up the gazoo - under the current tax code.  Michael
> Dell,
> absolutely not suffering at all - under the present tax code.  None  of
> the
> founder types I've mentioned need special consideration from the
> tax  code,
> they
> are all doing very very well by any standard - and I don't begrudge  their
> doing well, but neither do I feel sympathy for the tax they pay.   They've
> got
> it made and some of the reasons they have it made is the larger  society
> respects and enforces their intellectual property rights - at a real  cost
> to the
> larger society - the larger society facilitates their production  efforts
> with
> roads, power, terminals and infrastructure and security of all  sorts, and
> generally enables the commerce that they profit from so greatly -
> so  maybe
> they
> should pay more for that increased support.  If that increased  support
> weren't
> there, they'd have nothing or very much less.  The customs  inspector
> standing on the dock looking for counterfeit Nikes is not paid by Phil
> Knight, but
> Phil Knight benefits directly from that customs inspector's  activities,
> maybe
> Phil Knight should pay more tax than the rest of us.   Maybe Bill Gates
> should
> pay more taxes, the US Government is investing time and  manpower trying
> to
> mitigate software pirating efforts in Asia and around the  world, a direct
> significant beneficiary is - Bill Gates.  I don't begrudge  any of these
> guys
> their wealth, but I also think they, more than some day worker  in South
> Carolina,
> are constructively exploiting, using, and benefiting from the  full range
> of
>
> government services and in consideration they should pay more  taxes.
>
> Dave
>
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