[Rhodes22-list] Flat Tax Semi-Rant

[Bill Effros]

David,

It seems to me there's something in the Old Testament about a "Jubilee 
Year" in which all debts are forgiven.  We don't hear too much about it 
when the virtues of the Judeo-Christian system are being extolled.  
Although, I believe that Muslims take that passage quite seriously, 
which is the reason that Muslim banks don't lend money in the 
traditional manner.

There's social engineering everywhere you look.

Essentially, that's the function of government.  Nobody wants to pay 
taxes, but all of us on this list want the government to accurately 
chart and maintain the waters in which we sail.  It doesn't particularly 
matter to us that the benefits accrue to a relatively small segment of 
the taxpaying population.

And so it goes.

Bill Effros

David Culp wrote:
> Bill,
>
>  
>
> I think you are right. nothing prevents government from extracting
> additional taxes even under a flat system.  My point merely was that
> government has not only the power to reduce our personal wealth by the taxes
> they collect, but also tremendous power to motivate our personal actions by
> using the progressive tax and its system of credits and deductions.
> Politicians never like to give up power and I doubt they ever would by going
> to a complete flat tax system.
>
>  
>
> You wanted the definition of a truly flat tax system that applies equally to
> everyone.  There may not be one.  The closest thing I could think of was the
> tithe in the Old Testament.  My impression was that it was 10% of a person's
> harvest annually and everyone gave 10%.  Well if this quote from the
> American Standard Bible study group is correct, even that does not qualify
> as a truly flat system:
>
>  
>
>   . . ." Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the
> civil government. So the Levite's tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor
> to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund
> a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed
> on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total
> giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20
> percent. All that money was used to operate the nation."
>
>  
>
> Now we know why our politicians are always referring to the Judeo-Christian
> basis of our constitution.
>
>  
>
> David Culp
>
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>> On 1/16/07, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>     
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>>> David,
>>>       
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>>> According to Brad's definition of the "flat tax" there's nothing in that
>>>       
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>>> proposal that prevents government at any level from enacting "social
>>>       
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>>> engineering" taxes -- or any other additional taxes.
>>>       
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>>> Do you have a different definition for the "flat tax"?
>>>       
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>>> Bill Effros
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>>> David A. Culp wrote:
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>>>> The flat tax is a great idea that will never see the light of day.
>>>>         
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>>>> The reason is simple... power.  Both political parties and most other
>>>>         
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>>> politicians will never give up the power that our present taxation 
>>>       
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>>> system
>>>       
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>>> gives them.
>>>       
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>>>> Anybody ever hear the term "social engineering" before?  As an 
>>>>         
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>>> example,
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>>> if the government really wants you to quit smoking, they impose taxes to
>>>       
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>>> make it so financially unattractive that you quit, same for rum
>>>       
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>>> drinkers.  In fact, it's best if they threaten to do so from time to 
>>>       
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>>> time so
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>>> that the rich tobacco and distiller's lobbies will go nuts and shower 
>>>       
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>>> them
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>>> with money and trips.  That's power.
>>>       
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>>>> Just recently in Texas, we added $1.00 to the tobacco tax on January
>>>>         
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>>> 1st.  The tobacco lobby worked very hard behind the scenes 
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>>> (read-spread a
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>>> lot of $$ around) but came up short because our legislators had made too
>>>       
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>>> many promises to taxpayers over the past years to lower property 
>>>       
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>>> taxes.  My
>>>       
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>>> brother who has smoked for years and we had been trying to get him to
>>>       
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>>> quit... finally did because he can no longer afford it.  So, our state
>>>       
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>>> legislators got my brother to quit smoking, collected lobby money 
>>>       
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>>> from big
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>>> tobacco trying to buy their votes and now will have even bigger tax 
>>>       
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>>> revenues
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>>> to waste in the next session.  A win, win, win for government by 
>>>       
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>>> tinkering
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>>> with the tax system.  To top it off, they will get even more property 
>>>       
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>>> taxes
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>>> long term because the rate reduction is a mere pittance and 
>>>       
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>>> valuations have
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>>> been going up dramatically with no legal cap.  Anyway, at least my 
>>>       
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>>> brother
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>>> quit smoking.
>>>       
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>>>> Another example, if the US government wants or needs us all to go
>>>>         
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>>> "green", they give us income tax incentives to do so.  Just think if the
>>>       
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>>> government wanted a wind generator in every well-to-do yard in 
>>>       
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>>> America; they
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>>> could do it in short order with the right tax incentives and we would 
>>>       
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>>> all
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>>> get into the wind energy business and sell those KW's back to the 
>>>       
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>>> electric
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>>> companies.  You can apply this model to just about any subject you 
>>>       
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>>> can think
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>>> of except sailboats.  I don't think the government will ever give me 
>>>       
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>>> a tax
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>>> credit for owning a sailboat, but they should because I'm saving 
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>>> fossil fuel
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>>> and not polluting the air as much!  Unfortunately, the sailboat lobby in
>>>       
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>>> this country just doesn't have enough wealth to push this through.  
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>>> But it
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>>> could be done with a large excise tax on fuel at boat docks, a huge 
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>>> luxury
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>>> tax on power boats and huge tax breaks for sailboats.  I can just see it
>>>       
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>>> now, a chicken in every pot and a sailboat in every driveway or farmer's
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>>> pond in America.
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>>>> And no matter what they say, no career politician will ever truly
>>>>         
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>>> support a flat tax.  Steve Forbes is not a career politician with an 
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>>> agenda
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>>> and already has plenty of money; so he can afford to support a flat
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>>> tax.  Remember, democrats want to social engineer the whole of 
>>>       
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>>> society by
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>>> redistributing wealth-can't do that as quickly or easily under a 
>>>       
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>>> flat-tax
>>>       
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>>> system.  Republicans would like to social engineer our morality but 
>>>       
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>>> that's
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>>> nearly impossible; so they are content to get their life-blood from
>>>       
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>>> businesses and lobbies whom they protect with tax breaks ala Exxon 
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>>> Mobil or
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>>> threaten to put out of business, like tobacco for instance.  Either 
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>>> way, the
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>>> money just rolls in and as we know, always follow the money.
>>>       
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>>>> David Culp
>>>>         
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>   
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>         
>
>   
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>>>>         
>
>   
>
>   
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>   
>
>   
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>
>   
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