[Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar panels

Arthur H. Czerwonky czerwonky at earthlink.net
Sun Jan 28 19:38:47 EST 2007


Bill,
I'll bet you are right on LEDs with your panel/battery system.  What lights have you chosen for the LEDs, and how would you suggest buying them.  I am told that some of the LEDs are now approved for nav use - is this your understanding?
Art

-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Sent: Jan 28, 2007 12:39 PM
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar panels
>
>L.
>
>I am not making those assumptions, you are  making those inferences.
>
>I have owned an R-22 for 10 years.  Every day I have been on board--well 
>over 500--I have noted the electrical consumption.  I have hooked up 
>single batteries and dual batteries.  I have used flooded, gel, and 
>AGM.  I have used motors with and without alternators.  I have used 
>solar panels, and I have covered them.  I know what I am talking about 
>from experience.
>
>You have not yet used your boat.  You are using tables and graphs that 
>are wrong for the boats for which they are written--and are even more 
>wrong for R-22s with Solar Panels.
>
>I have purchased additional Folding Solar Panels which I now use to 
>recharge all the appliance batteries on board.  I recharge all radios, 
>flashlights, cd players, etc -- including my VHF radio using solar 
>power.  I run a laptop off my batteries.  I run my cell phone off the 
>house batteries.
>
>My boat has never needed to be recharged from house current.  It is on a 
>mooring all summer and in a boatyard all winter.  I never remove the 
>batteries from the boat even though I live near NYC.  I could not do 
>that without the solar charger, since the motor does not run all 
>winter.  My boat batteries have never even come close to being fully 
>discharged.
>
>I accidentally shorted one of my batteries one year.  It did not short 
>out the other, even though the 2 batteries were connected in parallel.  
>When I realized what had happened, I disconnected the bad battery and 
>just used a single battery for the rest of the summer.  I never got 
>close to discharging the one, not as good as it used to be, battery.
>
>I am in the process of changing over all of my lights to LEDs.  I 
>suspect that I could leave the LEDs on 24/7 and that my batteries would 
>never run down with the solar cells on them.  But I haven't tested that 
>theory yet.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>elle wrote:
>> Bill, 
>>
>> You are making two assumptions:
>> . that the R-22's have LED's rather than the installed
>> incandescent lights; and 
>> 2) that the engine battery is 2a) the only battery,
>> and 2b) that it is b=connected to the house lights.
>>
>> NOT!
>>
>> Each may be very different from what i described. I
>> based my comments on my own configuration.
>>
>> Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> elle
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Hadz,
>>>
>>> Power consumption meters will do all the
>>> calculations for you.  While 
>>> they are expensive, they answer a lot of questions,
>>> and bring peace of 
>>> mind.  They will ultimately save you a lot of money.
>>>
>>> Solar panels actually do bring a lot to the party. 
>>> The consumption 
>>> figures L. and Art are using--which you will see
>>> widely used 
>>> elsewhere--are incorrect in real life.
>>>
>>> The starter motors on large boats draw far more
>>> electricity out of 
>>> batteries than an equivalent number of LEDs left
>>> burning for the same 
>>> calculated number of Amp-Hours.
>>>
>>> On our boats, motors with starters will put more
>>> electricity back into 
>>> the battery than they consume.  Solar cells are all
>>> that are required to 
>>> put electricity back into the batteries for lights,
>>> stereos,  and other 
>>> incidental uses.  When you are cruising you will
>>> inevitably wind up 
>>> using your motor a lot.  This will provide plenty of
>>> electricity for 
>>> auto-pilots and lights.  Should the battery fail,
>>> all you need to do is 
>>> pull the cord on our little motors to start
>>> them--you can't do that with 
>>> big boats which is why they factor in so much for
>>> idiots--the running 
>>> motor will provide the electricity you need for
>>> lights/autopilot/and 
>>> bringing the batteries back up to fully charged
>>> levels.
>>>
>>> One battery is all you really need on our boats
>>> almost all of the time.  
>>> 2 batteries are over-kill.  Top them off with solar
>>> panels most of the 
>>> time.  Get an electric starting motor.  Your
>>> batteries should never run 
>>> down if they are constantly topped off by solar
>>> panels.  Properly 
>>> maintained batteries that are never fully discharged
>>> will last for more 
>>> than 6 years.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>> Joseph Hadzima wrote:
>>>     
>>>> Thanks elle & Art!
>>>>
>>>> I had assumed the pannel utilitiy was related both
>>>>       
>>> to
>>>     
>>>> consumpson, and latitude; and since you're also
>>>>       
>>> just above
>>>     
>>>> the 37th latitude, I appreciate your calculations.
>>>>       
>>>  
>>>     
>>>>
>>>> --- "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
>>>>       
>>> <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>     
>>>>   
>>>>       
>>>>> Elle,
>>>>>
>>>>> Excellent perspective on the panels.  They don't
>>>>>         
>>> bring
>>>     
>>>>> much to the party.  I bought one of the LED
>>>>>         
>>> utility
>>>     
>>>>> lights from Boaters World at the Annapolis - not
>>>>>         
>>> bad at
>>>     
>>>>> all, and low power consumption.  I bought LED
>>>>>         
>>> Xmas lights
>>>     
>>>>> before the holidays, for next year's boat parade
>>>>>         
>>> in
>>>     
>>>>> Savannah possibly.  Five strings powered thru a
>>>>>         
>>> 70 watt
>>>     
>>>>> inverter (the lights were a/c because the DC were
>>>>>         
>>> sold
>>>     
>>>>> out) were no problem at all, plenty for 80' of
>>>>>         
>>> big LED
>>>     
>>>>> bulbs.  The mfg will not comment on amp draw, but
>>>>>         
>>> it must
>>>     
>>>>> be minescule.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really think the stability questions about the
>>>>>         
>>> Rhodes
>>>     
>>>>> have been  overdone, therefore of concern to you,
>>>>>         
>>> Hadz,
>>>     
>>>>> and others.  Each of us skipper has our own
>>>>>         
>>> comfort
>>>     
>>>>> boundaries, and this remarkable craft has the
>>>>>         
>>> ability to
>>>     
>>>>> adjust accordingly.  If you find the boat
>>>>>         
>>> sensitive to
>>>     
>>>>> particular winds, it is so simple to trim either
>>>>>         
>>> main or
>>>     
>>>>> genny.  Bill likes to stay level on the water in
>>>>>         
>>> the LI
>>>     
>>>>> area, even with the ability to steer with weight
>>>>> distribution.  Match that...
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't think there is a boat to compare
>>>>>         
>>> with
>>>     
>>>>> our's in any catagory except maybe competitive
>>>>>         
>>> racing
>>>     
>>>>> with IMF.  
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't wait to read your first postings after
>>>>>         
>>> you
>>>     
>>>>> receive yours.  We will hear the Oh's! and Ah's
>>>>>         
>>> in
>>>     
>>>>> Atlanta, at Hartwell, and at Edenton without
>>>>>         
>>> fail!  I can
>>>     
>>>>> bet you're ready to get underway.  If you are a
>>>>>         
>>> little
>>>     
>>>>> short to see the bow, nary a problem because you
>>>>>         
>>> will
>>>     
>>>>> just levitate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many cheers,
>>>>> Art
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>     
>>>>>         
>>>>>> From: elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Jan 27, 2007 12:41 PM
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>>           
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>     
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar
>>>>>>           
>>> panels
>>>     
>>>>>> Hadz,
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>  Whether the solar panels can keep the batteries
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>           
>>>>> charged is a function of the no. of  amp hours
>>>>>         
>>> used by
>>>     
>>>>> the goodies below.
>>>>>     
>>>>>         
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>  I don't have my estimated numbers with me (I'm
>>>>>>           
>>> at the
>>>     
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>           
>>>>> marina working...!) but, for example, if you have
>>>>>         
>>> 5
>>>     
>>>>> interior lights below and if each interior light 
>>>>>         
>>> pulls
>>>     
>>>>> 1.5 amps/hr , you are using 7.5 amps per hour
>>>>>         
>>> using all
>>>     
>>>>> lights. Or you could use 1 light for 7.5 hours.
>>>>>         
>>> The solar
>>>     
>>>>> panels may provide approx. 1-2 amp hrs/day each
>>>>>         
>>> in this
>>>     
>>>>> latitude (maybe a bit more when the days are
>>>>>         
>>> longer &
>>>     
>>>>> fewer when the days become shorter)...so
>>>>>         
>>> estimating
>>>     
>>>>> usage, and the knowing the % you can draw your
>>>>>         
>>> batteries
>>>     
>>>>> down, I'd say don't count on the solar panels
>>>>>         
>>> doing more
>>>     
>>>>> than to top 'em off.
>>>>>     
>>>>>         
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>  When I did some estimates the other day, I
>>>>>>           
>>> figured I
>>>     
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>           
>>>>> could stay out 2-3 days (if sunny), bieng
>>>>>         
>>> conservative in
>>>     
>>>>> use, and have to go in to recharge from shore
>>>>>         
>>> power on
>>>     
>>>>> the 3rd day...more or less.
>>>>>     
>>>>>         
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>  elle
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Joseph Hadzima <josef508 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I was under the impression that solar panels
>>>>>>           
>>> worked best
>>>     
>>>>>> when they are set 90 degrees to the Sun. With
>>>>>>           
>>> the panels
>>>     
>>>>>> statically mounted on the Rhodes, are they
>>>>>>           
>>> sufficient at
>>>     
>>>>>> keeping the batteries charged during a typical
>>>>>>           
>>> weekend
>>>     
>>>>>> cruise, or are they more for: charging when you
>>>>>>           
>>> leave
>>>     
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>           
>>>>> your
>>>>>     
>>>>>         
>>>>>> boat tied at a mooring / slip during the week
>>>>>>           
>>> and sail
>>>     
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>           
>>>>> on
>>>>>     
>>>>>         
>>>>>> the weekend?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume the latitude where you sail may affect
>>>>>>           
>>> the
>>>     
>>>>>> efficiency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>           
>>>> HADZ (a.k.a. joe)
>>>>
>>>> "That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a
>>>>       
>>> keel and hull and a deck and sails. That's what a
>>> ship needs. But what a ship is... is freedom." 
>>>     
>>>> -- Captain Jack Sparrow
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>       
>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>     
>>>>   
>>>>       
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>     
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>> The fish are biting. 
>> Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
>> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
>> __________________________________________________
>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>
>>   
>__________________________________________________
>Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list



More information about the Rhodes22-list mailing list