[Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar panels
Arthur H. Czerwonky
czerwonky at earthlink.net
Sun Jan 28 19:38:47 EST 2007
Bill,
I'll bet you are right on LEDs with your panel/battery system. What lights have you chosen for the LEDs, and how would you suggest buying them. I am told that some of the LEDs are now approved for nav use - is this your understanding?
Art
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>Sent: Jan 28, 2007 12:39 PM
>To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar panels
>
>L.
>
>I am not making those assumptions, you are making those inferences.
>
>I have owned an R-22 for 10 years. Every day I have been on board--well
>over 500--I have noted the electrical consumption. I have hooked up
>single batteries and dual batteries. I have used flooded, gel, and
>AGM. I have used motors with and without alternators. I have used
>solar panels, and I have covered them. I know what I am talking about
>from experience.
>
>You have not yet used your boat. You are using tables and graphs that
>are wrong for the boats for which they are written--and are even more
>wrong for R-22s with Solar Panels.
>
>I have purchased additional Folding Solar Panels which I now use to
>recharge all the appliance batteries on board. I recharge all radios,
>flashlights, cd players, etc -- including my VHF radio using solar
>power. I run a laptop off my batteries. I run my cell phone off the
>house batteries.
>
>My boat has never needed to be recharged from house current. It is on a
>mooring all summer and in a boatyard all winter. I never remove the
>batteries from the boat even though I live near NYC. I could not do
>that without the solar charger, since the motor does not run all
>winter. My boat batteries have never even come close to being fully
>discharged.
>
>I accidentally shorted one of my batteries one year. It did not short
>out the other, even though the 2 batteries were connected in parallel.
>When I realized what had happened, I disconnected the bad battery and
>just used a single battery for the rest of the summer. I never got
>close to discharging the one, not as good as it used to be, battery.
>
>I am in the process of changing over all of my lights to LEDs. I
>suspect that I could leave the LEDs on 24/7 and that my batteries would
>never run down with the solar cells on them. But I haven't tested that
>theory yet.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>elle wrote:
>> Bill,
>>
>> You are making two assumptions:
>> . that the R-22's have LED's rather than the installed
>> incandescent lights; and
>> 2) that the engine battery is 2a) the only battery,
>> and 2b) that it is b=connected to the house lights.
>>
>> NOT!
>>
>> Each may be very different from what i described. I
>> based my comments on my own configuration.
>>
>> Your mileage may vary.
>>
>> elle
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hadz,
>>>
>>> Power consumption meters will do all the
>>> calculations for you. While
>>> they are expensive, they answer a lot of questions,
>>> and bring peace of
>>> mind. They will ultimately save you a lot of money.
>>>
>>> Solar panels actually do bring a lot to the party.
>>> The consumption
>>> figures L. and Art are using--which you will see
>>> widely used
>>> elsewhere--are incorrect in real life.
>>>
>>> The starter motors on large boats draw far more
>>> electricity out of
>>> batteries than an equivalent number of LEDs left
>>> burning for the same
>>> calculated number of Amp-Hours.
>>>
>>> On our boats, motors with starters will put more
>>> electricity back into
>>> the battery than they consume. Solar cells are all
>>> that are required to
>>> put electricity back into the batteries for lights,
>>> stereos, and other
>>> incidental uses. When you are cruising you will
>>> inevitably wind up
>>> using your motor a lot. This will provide plenty of
>>> electricity for
>>> auto-pilots and lights. Should the battery fail,
>>> all you need to do is
>>> pull the cord on our little motors to start
>>> them--you can't do that with
>>> big boats which is why they factor in so much for
>>> idiots--the running
>>> motor will provide the electricity you need for
>>> lights/autopilot/and
>>> bringing the batteries back up to fully charged
>>> levels.
>>>
>>> One battery is all you really need on our boats
>>> almost all of the time.
>>> 2 batteries are over-kill. Top them off with solar
>>> panels most of the
>>> time. Get an electric starting motor. Your
>>> batteries should never run
>>> down if they are constantly topped off by solar
>>> panels. Properly
>>> maintained batteries that are never fully discharged
>>> will last for more
>>> than 6 years.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>> Joseph Hadzima wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks elle & Art!
>>>>
>>>> I had assumed the pannel utilitiy was related both
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> consumpson, and latitude; and since you're also
>>>>
>>> just above
>>>
>>>> the 37th latitude, I appreciate your calculations.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
>>>>
>>> <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Elle,
>>>>>
>>>>> Excellent perspective on the panels. They don't
>>>>>
>>> bring
>>>
>>>>> much to the party. I bought one of the LED
>>>>>
>>> utility
>>>
>>>>> lights from Boaters World at the Annapolis - not
>>>>>
>>> bad at
>>>
>>>>> all, and low power consumption. I bought LED
>>>>>
>>> Xmas lights
>>>
>>>>> before the holidays, for next year's boat parade
>>>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>>>> Savannah possibly. Five strings powered thru a
>>>>>
>>> 70 watt
>>>
>>>>> inverter (the lights were a/c because the DC were
>>>>>
>>> sold
>>>
>>>>> out) were no problem at all, plenty for 80' of
>>>>>
>>> big LED
>>>
>>>>> bulbs. The mfg will not comment on amp draw, but
>>>>>
>>> it must
>>>
>>>>> be minescule.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really think the stability questions about the
>>>>>
>>> Rhodes
>>>
>>>>> have been overdone, therefore of concern to you,
>>>>>
>>> Hadz,
>>>
>>>>> and others. Each of us skipper has our own
>>>>>
>>> comfort
>>>
>>>>> boundaries, and this remarkable craft has the
>>>>>
>>> ability to
>>>
>>>>> adjust accordingly. If you find the boat
>>>>>
>>> sensitive to
>>>
>>>>> particular winds, it is so simple to trim either
>>>>>
>>> main or
>>>
>>>>> genny. Bill likes to stay level on the water in
>>>>>
>>> the LI
>>>
>>>>> area, even with the ability to steer with weight
>>>>> distribution. Match that...
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't think there is a boat to compare
>>>>>
>>> with
>>>
>>>>> our's in any catagory except maybe competitive
>>>>>
>>> racing
>>>
>>>>> with IMF.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't wait to read your first postings after
>>>>>
>>> you
>>>
>>>>> receive yours. We will hear the Oh's! and Ah's
>>>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>>>> Atlanta, at Hartwell, and at Edenton without
>>>>>
>>> fail! I can
>>>
>>>>> bet you're ready to get underway. If you are a
>>>>>
>>> little
>>>
>>>>> short to see the bow, nary a problem because you
>>>>>
>>> will
>>>
>>>>> just levitate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many cheers,
>>>>> Art
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Jan 27, 2007 12:41 PM
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>>
>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar
>>>>>>
>>> panels
>>>
>>>>>> Hadz,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether the solar panels can keep the batteries
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> charged is a function of the no. of amp hours
>>>>>
>>> used by
>>>
>>>>> the goodies below.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have my estimated numbers with me (I'm
>>>>>>
>>> at the
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> marina working...!) but, for example, if you have
>>>>>
>>> 5
>>>
>>>>> interior lights below and if each interior light
>>>>>
>>> pulls
>>>
>>>>> 1.5 amps/hr , you are using 7.5 amps per hour
>>>>>
>>> using all
>>>
>>>>> lights. Or you could use 1 light for 7.5 hours.
>>>>>
>>> The solar
>>>
>>>>> panels may provide approx. 1-2 amp hrs/day each
>>>>>
>>> in this
>>>
>>>>> latitude (maybe a bit more when the days are
>>>>>
>>> longer &
>>>
>>>>> fewer when the days become shorter)...so
>>>>>
>>> estimating
>>>
>>>>> usage, and the knowing the % you can draw your
>>>>>
>>> batteries
>>>
>>>>> down, I'd say don't count on the solar panels
>>>>>
>>> doing more
>>>
>>>>> than to top 'em off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I did some estimates the other day, I
>>>>>>
>>> figured I
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> could stay out 2-3 days (if sunny), bieng
>>>>>
>>> conservative in
>>>
>>>>> use, and have to go in to recharge from shore
>>>>>
>>> power on
>>>
>>>>> the 3rd day...more or less.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> elle
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph Hadzima <josef508 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was under the impression that solar panels
>>>>>>
>>> worked best
>>>
>>>>>> when they are set 90 degrees to the Sun. With
>>>>>>
>>> the panels
>>>
>>>>>> statically mounted on the Rhodes, are they
>>>>>>
>>> sufficient at
>>>
>>>>>> keeping the batteries charged during a typical
>>>>>>
>>> weekend
>>>
>>>>>> cruise, or are they more for: charging when you
>>>>>>
>>> leave
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> your
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> boat tied at a mooring / slip during the week
>>>>>>
>>> and sail
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> the weekend?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume the latitude where you sail may affect
>>>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>>>> efficiency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> HADZ (a.k.a. joe)
>>>>
>>>> "That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a
>>>>
>>> keel and hull and a deck and sails. That's what a
>>> ship needs. But what a ship is... is freedom."
>>>
>>>> -- Captain Jack Sparrow
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>
>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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