[Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar panels
Bill Effros
bill at effros.com
Sun Jan 28 20:42:37 EST 2007
Art,
I've been buying single contact LED replacement bulbs that fit into my
existing light fixtures, some red, some white. Defender has been
selling them for 1/2 what they cost at West Marine. The white ones are
not quite as bright as incandescents, but plenty bright enough for
reading. I have always felt the white incandescents were too bright if
you subsequently had to go back on deck and do anything at night.
The red LEDs are perfect. I just love using them while sailing or
motoring at night. You can find what you're looking for and still see
where you're going.
I've never had a problem with port and stern lights, they really don't
use all that much electricity, and I'm sticking with "if it ain't broke,
don't fix it". Replacing them with LEDs means changing the fixtures.
I have always had problems with mast lights. They work fine whenever
you don't need them. I have jury rigged a low white mast light that I
can reach if it doesn't work properly at night. Naturally, it always
works right at night, and it complies with CG regs.
I think it is more important to have a working light10 feet above the
water than a light that's out on top of the mast. Right now there is
no light on top of my mast. If they get the kinks out of the LED mast
lights, and drop the price I might put one up there. For now, I'll
stick with what I've got.
Bill Effros
Arthur H. Czerwonky wrote:
> Bill,
> I'll bet you are right on LEDs with your panel/battery system. What lights have you chosen for the LEDs, and how would you suggest buying them. I am told that some of the LEDs are now approved for nav use - is this your understanding?
> Art
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> Sent: Jan 28, 2007 12:39 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar panels
>>
>> L.
>>
>> I am not making those assumptions, you are making those inferences.
>>
>> I have owned an R-22 for 10 years. Every day I have been on board--well
>> over 500--I have noted the electrical consumption. I have hooked up
>> single batteries and dual batteries. I have used flooded, gel, and
>> AGM. I have used motors with and without alternators. I have used
>> solar panels, and I have covered them. I know what I am talking about
>>
> >from experience.
>
>> You have not yet used your boat. You are using tables and graphs that
>> are wrong for the boats for which they are written--and are even more
>> wrong for R-22s with Solar Panels.
>>
>> I have purchased additional Folding Solar Panels which I now use to
>> recharge all the appliance batteries on board. I recharge all radios,
>> flashlights, cd players, etc -- including my VHF radio using solar
>> power. I run a laptop off my batteries. I run my cell phone off the
>> house batteries.
>>
>> My boat has never needed to be recharged from house current. It is on a
>> mooring all summer and in a boatyard all winter. I never remove the
>> batteries from the boat even though I live near NYC. I could not do
>> that without the solar charger, since the motor does not run all
>> winter. My boat batteries have never even come close to being fully
>> discharged.
>>
>> I accidentally shorted one of my batteries one year. It did not short
>> out the other, even though the 2 batteries were connected in parallel.
>> When I realized what had happened, I disconnected the bad battery and
>> just used a single battery for the rest of the summer. I never got
>> close to discharging the one, not as good as it used to be, battery.
>>
>> I am in the process of changing over all of my lights to LEDs. I
>> suspect that I could leave the LEDs on 24/7 and that my batteries would
>> never run down with the solar cells on them. But I haven't tested that
>> theory yet.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>> elle wrote:
>>
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> You are making two assumptions:
>>> . that the R-22's have LED's rather than the installed
>>> incandescent lights; and
>>> 2) that the engine battery is 2a) the only battery,
>>> and 2b) that it is b=connected to the house lights.
>>>
>>> NOT!
>>>
>>> Each may be very different from what i described. I
>>> based my comments on my own configuration.
>>>
>>> Your mileage may vary.
>>>
>>> elle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hadz,
>>>>
>>>> Power consumption meters will do all the
>>>> calculations for you. While
>>>> they are expensive, they answer a lot of questions,
>>>> and bring peace of
>>>> mind. They will ultimately save you a lot of money.
>>>>
>>>> Solar panels actually do bring a lot to the party.
>>>> The consumption
>>>> figures L. and Art are using--which you will see
>>>> widely used
>>>> elsewhere--are incorrect in real life.
>>>>
>>>> The starter motors on large boats draw far more
>>>> electricity out of
>>>> batteries than an equivalent number of LEDs left
>>>> burning for the same
>>>> calculated number of Amp-Hours.
>>>>
>>>> On our boats, motors with starters will put more
>>>> electricity back into
>>>> the battery than they consume. Solar cells are all
>>>> that are required to
>>>> put electricity back into the batteries for lights,
>>>> stereos, and other
>>>> incidental uses. When you are cruising you will
>>>> inevitably wind up
>>>> using your motor a lot. This will provide plenty of
>>>> electricity for
>>>> auto-pilots and lights. Should the battery fail,
>>>> all you need to do is
>>>> pull the cord on our little motors to start
>>>> them--you can't do that with
>>>> big boats which is why they factor in so much for
>>>> idiots--the running
>>>> motor will provide the electricity you need for
>>>> lights/autopilot/and
>>>> bringing the batteries back up to fully charged
>>>> levels.
>>>>
>>>> One battery is all you really need on our boats
>>>> almost all of the time.
>>>> 2 batteries are over-kill. Top them off with solar
>>>> panels most of the
>>>> time. Get an electric starting motor. Your
>>>> batteries should never run
>>>> down if they are constantly topped off by solar
>>>> panels. Properly
>>>> maintained batteries that are never fully discharged
>>>> will last for more
>>>> than 6 years.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Hadzima wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks elle & Art!
>>>>>
>>>>> I had assumed the pannel utilitiy was related both
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> consumpson, and latitude; and since you're also
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> just above
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> the 37th latitude, I appreciate your calculations.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --- "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> <czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Elle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Excellent perspective on the panels. They don't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> bring
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> much to the party. I bought one of the LED
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> utility
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> lights from Boaters World at the Annapolis - not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> bad at
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> all, and low power consumption. I bought LED
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Xmas lights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> before the holidays, for next year's boat parade
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Savannah possibly. Five strings powered thru a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> 70 watt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> inverter (the lights were a/c because the DC were
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> sold
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> out) were no problem at all, plenty for 80' of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> big LED
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> bulbs. The mfg will not comment on amp draw, but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> it must
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> be minescule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really think the stability questions about the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Rhodes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> have been overdone, therefore of concern to you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Hadz,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> and others. Each of us skipper has our own
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> comfort
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> boundaries, and this remarkable craft has the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ability to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> adjust accordingly. If you find the boat
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> sensitive to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> particular winds, it is so simple to trim either
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> main or
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> genny. Bill likes to stay level on the water in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> the LI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> area, even with the ability to steer with weight
>>>>>> distribution. Match that...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't think there is a boat to compare
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> our's in any catagory except maybe competitive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> racing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> with IMF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't wait to read your first postings after
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> receive yours. We will hear the Oh's! and Ah's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Atlanta, at Hartwell, and at Edenton without
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> fail! I can
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> bet you're ready to get underway. If you are a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> little
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> short to see the bow, nary a problem because you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> will
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> just levitate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many cheers,
>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Jan 27, 2007 12:41 PM
>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 mail list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] speaking of solar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> panels
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Hadz,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whether the solar panels can keep the batteries
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> charged is a function of the no. of amp hours
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> used by
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the goodies below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have my estimated numbers with me (I'm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> at the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> marina working...!) but, for example, if you have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> interior lights below and if each interior light
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> pulls
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> 1.5 amps/hr , you are using 7.5 amps per hour
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> using all
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> lights. Or you could use 1 light for 7.5 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> The solar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> panels may provide approx. 1-2 amp hrs/day each
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> in this
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> latitude (maybe a bit more when the days are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> longer &
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> fewer when the days become shorter)...so
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> estimating
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> usage, and the knowing the % you can draw your
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> batteries
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> down, I'd say don't count on the solar panels
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> doing more
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> than to top 'em off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I did some estimates the other day, I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> figured I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> could stay out 2-3 days (if sunny), bieng
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> conservative in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> use, and have to go in to recharge from shore
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> power on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the 3rd day...more or less.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> elle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph Hadzima <josef508 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was under the impression that solar panels
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> worked best
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> when they are set 90 degrees to the Sun. With
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> the panels
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> statically mounted on the Rhodes, are they
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> sufficient at
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> keeping the batteries charged during a typical
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> weekend
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> cruise, or are they more for: charging when you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> leave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> your
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> boat tied at a mooring / slip during the week
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> and sail
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the weekend?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I assume the latitude where you sail may affect
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> efficiency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> HADZ (a.k.a. joe)
>>>>>
>>>>> "That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> keel and hull and a deck and sails. That's what a
>>>> ship needs. But what a ship is... is freedom."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -- Captain Jack Sparrow
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help?
>>>> www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>
> __________________________________________________
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