[Rhodes22-list] Question for Brad about Iraq Information (political)

[TN Rhodey]

Brad,  Come on man.....Why, when, and how did Al Quaeda get into Iraq? You
can blame that on us! The fluff is suggesting the limited view point of the
author is the solution. He seems to think (and I guess you do as well) that
the only way to stand up to  Al Quaeda was /is to attack Iraq, The guy is a
dim wit. There were/are other options and to say differently shows limited
thinking.. To me that is fluff. Actually I think it is stupid.

How to fight Al Queada and fanatical Muslim terrorists? This is not an easy
mission....I have said over and over again that we should have stayed in
Afghanistan and attacked our foes there. I have stated over and over again
that going (nearly) alone was doomed from the start. Staying is just as
doomed.  It seems now that we are stuck in Iraq folks just want to cave in
and say we are here and thats that!. Well we are not stuck in Iraq we are
there by choice..... It was foolish to go in and just as foolish to stay. It
will look bad for us but  we created this mess and we will have to live with
that.

I would exit  Iraq and use the funds saved  to develop a meaningful Homeland
Security. We need a strategy that doesn't involve blowing up countries that
don't threaten our National Security. Use some of the money to improve
border and harbor security.  The terrorists don't have long range missiles
so any attack most likely will be launched from within our borders. It seems
the various agencies are still not linked on a common database. I would
rather us spend the money improving our safety rather than pissing it away
in Iraq. We can do much to improve our own security without attacking
anyone. We need to continue improving and step up our intelligence.

We also have to try diplomacy. Even though we have made things worse it is
still may not be too late.  We need to leverage any relationship left with
existing Muslim allies to help solve this problem. Obviously any chance of
lasting peace will have to include a resolution in Israel. No easy task and
indeed it may be impossible. Our current tactics are making the job harder
not easier. We need to quit beating our head against the wall.

I am dismayed at the limited amount of time Rice and Bush spend on trying to
build relationships with existing Middle Eastern allies. We are losing
allies like Egypt, Jordan and Turkey who were with us for Desert Storm but
passed on Round 2. We need help from Muslim allies and use diplomacy will
send a better message than war. Use trade, aid or sanctions. . I am in no
way suggesting that we negotiate with Al Queada.

We have sent a message to the Muslim world but i am not sure if it is the
message we meant to send .We were thinking we would be welcomed. We were
not. Other Muslim countries viewed the US as a war monger ignoring the UN
and attacking their Muslim brothers and sisters. These are the very same
countries WE need to drive the initiative for change. The message can not
come solely from us. To think we alone can change these people is naive and
ignores history.

Now what if diplomacy fails and the terrorists attack us or our allies? To
me that is a cause for war and we declare war. I think people would be
surprised at how different the country acts when war is declared. Study
history if you don't believe me. If we go to war i am of the opinion that we
use every means necessary including our weapons of mass destruction. But war
should be the last resort.

Wally

On 7/10/07, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wally,
>
> Could you please explain the fluff?  While you're doing some "higher
> level"
> thinking, what is your solution to Al Quaeda?  Should we negotiate?  Give
> me
> their cell phone number and I'll ask them myself what they want!  Al
> Quaeda
> IS in Iraq.  What is the cost of leaving them there?  That IS the
> question,
> Sir!  How they got there or who is responsible is immaterial at this point
> (oh shit, I used another accounting term).  What is the alternative
> solution?  Inquiring minds want to know!
>
> Brad
>
> On 7/10/07, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ed, Talk about fluff...the article posted is full of it. I am not sure
> if
> > people are really stupid enough to fall for such a limited viewpoint.
> What
> > you and the author don't get.... It is possible to recognize both the
> > folly
> > in attacking Iraq AND  that Al Quaeda and like want to kill us. It is
> not
> > one or the other....some of us have the ability to think at a higher
> level
> > and look for different solutions to a problem. It is also possible to
> > recognize that we are doing some good in Iraq while questioning the
> cost.
> > .
> >
> > Wally
> >
> > On 7/10/07, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brad:
> > >
> > > In the past few weeks, you sent several web references about
> Iraq.  And
> > I
> > > have Yon's homepage from my search for his famous picture.
> > >
> > > Somewhere amongst the web information was a paragraph that Yon
> reported
> > > about what U. S. surge forces found in an area that had been recently
> > > under
> > > control of Al Qaeda in Iraq.  That paragraph is being widely reported
> > > about
> > > on certain media the last couple of days.
> > >
> > > That paragraph discussed the way Al Qaeda was treating local Iraqis in
> > > areas
> > > that they controlled.  Specifically just killing families occupying
> > houses
> > > that they wanted and the incident where they invited a family to
> dinner
> > > and
> > > served them their 11 year old son baked like a pig with an apple
> stuffed
> > > in
> > > his mouth.
> > >
> > > I saw the aforementioned paragraph, but can no longer find it.  By
> > chance
> > > do
> > > you have the web site where it is posted?
> > >
> > > Ed K
> > > Greenville, SC, USA
> > > Addendum:
> > >
> > > Why the Peaceful Majority is Irrelevant
> > > By Paul Marek
> > > FrontPageMagazine.com | March 1, 2006
> > >
> > > I used to know a man whose family were German aristocracy prior to
> World
> > > War
> > > Two. They owned a number of large industries and estates. I asked him
> > how
> > > many German people were true Nazis, and the answer he gave has stuck
> > with
> > > me
> > > and guided my attitude toward fanaticism ever since.
> > >
> > > "Very few people were true Nazis" he said,
> > >
> > > "but, many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too
> > busy
> > > to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of
> > > fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then,
> > before
> > > we
> > > knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the
> > world
> > > had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration
> camp
> > > and
> > > the Allies destroyed my factories."
> > >
> > > We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads" that
> Islam
> > is
> > > the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want
> > to
> > > live in peace.
> > >
> > > Although this unquantified assertion may be true, it is entirely
> > > irrelevant.
> > > It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to
> > > somehow
> > > diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the
> name
> > of
> > > Islam. The fact is, that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in
> > > history.
> > > It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of
> 50
> > > shooting wars world wide. It is the fanatics who systematically
> > slaughter
> > > Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking
> > over
> > > the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb,
> > > behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque
> > > after
> > > mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and
> hanging
> > of
> > > rape victims and homosexuals. The hard quantifiable fact is, that the
> > > "peaceful majority" is the "silent majority" and it is cowed and
> > > extraneous.
> > >
> > >
> > > Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in
> > > peace,
> > > yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20
> > > million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge
> > > population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to
> kill
> > a
> > > staggering 70 million people.
> > >
> > > The Average Japanese individual prior to World War 2 was not a
> > > warmongering
> > > sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East
> > Asia
> > > in an orgy of Killing that included the systematic killing of 12
> million
> > > Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And, who
> > can
> > > forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said
> that
> > > the
> > > majority of Rwandans were "peace loving".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > View this message in context:
> > > http://www.nabble.com/Iraq-Update-tf4048809.html#a11520997
> > > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > >
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