[Rhodes22-list] Brad: Re: Raising Children: Ben Stein...OOPS

[Rik Sandberg]

Those would be keepers

Rik

elle wrote:
> OOPS>>Where'd it go???
>    
>   I think it'll appear now..
>    
>   elle <watermusic38 at yahoo.com> wrote:    Brad,
>
> Rec'd this from an elegant, creative, artistic and talented teacher friend w/more than 35 yrs experience the same day you posted yours..Not trying to ignite anything ;^); just seems apropos to your earlier post.
>
> Her comment is first, then the Ben Stein piece that she references.
>
>
> elle
>
>
> >From my friend:
>   
>
>     I don't usually forward things that  could offend my friends and relatives.  And, I hope this does not offend anyone.  One's beliefs, like one's politics are one's own business.  But, there were a couple of lines here that I have been thinking about as I have taken on a new school and a new kind of job in the past couple of years.....I have wondered how there can be so many many angry and disfunctional kids and parents out there....so many damaged souls.....
>    
>   Just yesterday I had two young girls in the restroom afterschool shout obscenities at me as I asked if they were smoking.....the room was dense with smoke......Use your imagination as to what they said to me......As I was complaining to my department chair about the numbers of this kids who seem to have no sense of how to behave with each other, how to have respect for authority, how to use basic things like pencils, scissors, and glue without hurting themselves or others, we talked about our own time growing up......We both went to school together in this county and were often in the same classes.  We remember some kids who had less material goods than others.  We remembered a child who was on crutches all his life.  We remember kids who were slower and faster physically and academically.  We remembered that we all played together at recess and that there were no bullies in our classes.  No one had to sit out because of behavior. No one sassed the teacher or principal. 
>  No one threatened anyone.  No one took a gun to school to shoot kids although there were probably lots of guns in the cars of the kids and teachers who hunted once we got to high school!  No one yelled obscenites at school sports venues....certainly not parents....and there was no graffiti!!!!  So what has happened?
>    
>   Having taught mythology for many years, I can say that every culture from ancient times on seemed to have a set of rules, not unlike the Ten Commandments, to insure a safe and orderly environment.  Each culture had consequences for intemperate action.....think of Phaeton falling out of the sun chariot when his guilty father finally let him drive the horses across the sky.  To remove the all father, or the god head, or supreme being, or God, and not put anything in that place that would give humans guidance and hope may not have been a good thing.  If that's what we've done.....and....I certainly don't know...yet...I do wonder sometimes......
>
>
>
>     
> ---------------------------------
>       #yiv2082510708 v\:* { }#yiv2082510708 o\:* {}#yiv2082510708 w\:* {}#yiv2082510708 .shape {}    #yiv2082510708 st1\:*{}      
>   
>  
>      
>     The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary. 
>
> My confession:
>
> I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish.  And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are:   Christmas trees.
>
> It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
>
> I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
>
> Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?   I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.  But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.
>
> In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
>
> Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding Katrina)   Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.
> She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.  And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?" 
>
> In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
> Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
>
> Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
>
> Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
>
> Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."
>
> Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.   Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.  Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.  Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
>
> Are you laughing? 
>
> Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it. 
>
> Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
>
> Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.  My Best Regards. 
> Honestly and respectfully,
>
> Ben Stein 
>   
>                                                         
>
>
>   
>
>
>
> Brad Haslett wrote:
> Been a bit busy "raising" the Coast this week for any serious reading. I
> stumbled across this article this morning and thought it pretty good - and
> funny. Brad
>
> -------------------------
>
> *Don't Suffer the Little Children*
> A father of four explains the realist approach to parenting.
>
> *BY TONY WOODLIEF*
> *Friday, September 7, 2007 12:01 a.m.*
>
> Another school year has sprung itself upon us, which is always an occasion
> for my wife, a former Detroit public-school teacher, and me to remind
> ourselves why we home-school. Part of the reason, in addition to my wife's
> expertise in this area, can be found in Thomas Sowell's "A Conflict of
> Visions," published 20 years ago. Mr. Sowell contrasted the "unconstrained
> vision" of utopians, who want to radically improve humankind, with the
> "constrained vision" of realists, who begin with the proposition that man is
> inherently self-interested, and not moldable into whatever form the
> high-minded types have in store for us once they get their itchy fingers on
> the levers of power. Mr. Sowell's book has been influential among
> conservatives for its compelling explanation of the divide between people
> who want to reshape us--often via large intrusions on liberty--and those who
> believe that the purpose of government is to protect institutions (like
> markets and families) that channel our inherent selfishness into productive
> behavior. It is also a handy guide for parenting.
>
> While some mothers and fathers stubbornly cling to the utopian beliefs of
> their childless years, the vision of humans as inherently sinful and selfish
> resonates with many of us who are parents. Nobody who's stood between a
> toddler and the last cookie should still harbor a belief in the inherent
> virtue of mankind. An afternoon at the playground is apt to make one toss
> out the idealist Rousseau ("man is a compassionate and sensible being") in
> favor of the more realistic Hobbes ("all mankind [is in] a perpetual and
> restless desire for power"). As a father of four sons, I've signed on to Mr.
> Sowell's summation of a parent's duty: "Each new generation born is in
> effect an invasion of civilization by little barbarians, who must be
> civilized before it is too late."
>
> The constrained vision indicates that world harmony and universal
> satisfaction are mirages. People are innately selfish, and they'll always
> desire more goodies. This means that tradeoffs between competing wants are
> inevitable. My wife and I therefore forbid our children to use the word
> "fair." Parents still in the thrall of the unconstrained worldview are prone
> to manipulation by their kids, who like little human-rights lawyers insist
> on fairness as an imperative. And don't get me started on the damage that an
> exaggerated sense of fairness and entitlement has done to public schools. In
> our house things are much simpler: That last piece of cake had to be divided
> somehow, and in this imperfect world your brother got the extra frosting.
> Deal with it.
>
> While the unconstrained worldview teaches that traditions and customs are to
> be distrusted as holdovers from benighted generations, those of us with the
> constrained view believe it's good to make our children address their elders
> properly, refrain from belching at the table and wear clothes that actually
> cover them. Mr. Sowell noted that some benefits from evolved societal rules
> can't be articulated, because they've developed through trial and error over
> centuries. This reveals the sublime wisdom in that time-honored parental
> rejoinder: "Because I said so."
>
> It's not surprising, then, to see Mr. Sowell approvingly cite Edmund Burke's
> observation that traditions provide "wisdom without reflection." This is
> lived out in our house by the dictum that parents are to be obeyed first,
> and politely questioned later. That seems oppressive to parents with the
> unconstrained worldview, who want to nurture Junior's sense of autonomy and
> broad-minded reasoning. It's awfully useful, however, when Junior is about
> to ride his bike into the path of an oncoming car. Obedience may be a dirty
> word in progressive schools and enlightened parenting circles, but it saves
> lives.
>
> Mr. Sowell also notes that among those espousing the unconstrained view,
> intentions are pre-eminent; utopians are cooking up a better tomorrow, after
> all, and should be excused for breaking a few million eggs while making the
> human omelet. In our house, however, you are in big trouble if you push your
> brother into the pool, regardless of the sincerity behind your desire that
> he learn to swim without his floaties. Hiding an animal trap directly on the
> path Dad takes to get his morning paper is likewise unacceptable, no matter
> how badly you want to catch a critter. And while other parents cherish
> whatever art their little Monets create, we punish activities that
> incorporate Mom's jewelry and Superglue, no matter how glittery the final
> product.
>
> Many parents in the unconstrained camp adhere to Rousseau's sentiment: "Man
> is born free, but everywhere is in chains." They not only fail to punish bad
> behavior but snarl at anyone who rebukes their precious darlings. In our
> house we have reversed Rousseau's theory: You are born in bondage and should
> be darn grateful for the free room and board. Besides, if you want to talk
> about restrictions on liberty you can take it up with your mother, who
> hasn't had an uninterrupted trip to the bathroom since 2001.
>
> I sometimes speak to groups of high-school and college students, and I have
> taken to disabusing them of the feel-good notion that they can do anything
> they want so long as they are passionate about it. Intentions, as Mr. Sowell
> observes, mean very little in the constrained worldview--and, besides,
> individuals are neither equal nor perfectible. This means that some of us
> will dig ditches for a living, especially if those certain someones, who
> know full well who I'm talking about, don't stop shooting spitballs at their
> brothers and get back to their math workbooks. Firmly in the constrained
> camp, I'm less concerned that my children self-actualize at an early age
> than that they learn a trade and get out of the house.
>
> As it turns out, this tension between realists and utopians has existed for
> at least as long as people have been making a buck dispensing wisdom about
> how other folks should raise their kids. Ann Hulbert's "Raising America:
> Experts, Parents, and a Century of Advice about America" reveals successive
> generations of disciplinarians pitted against "gentler Rousseauian"
> proponents of the inherent goodness of a child's nature. Ms. Hulbert quotes
> the president of the National Congress of Mothers proclaiming in 1897 that
> science-based parenting innovations would so change civilization that "those
> of us who live to see the year 1925 will behold a new world and a new
> people." Fast forward past two world wars and the global ravages of utopian
> totalitarianism to 2006, when education expert Stephanie Marshall writes
> exuberantly that "the fundamental purpose of schooling is to liberate the
> goodness and genius of children."
>
> Perhaps the fundamental purpose of schooling should be to liberate parents
> from the necessity of supporting our kids well past our retirement years.
> But regardless, this notion that humans are inherently angelic, and that it
> is society that corrupts them, is at the heart of much bad parenting, as
> well as inept schooling. Rather than help our children develop internal
> constraints that channel their energy and passion into productive
> enterprises, we end up teaching them that limits and discipline are for
> chumps. Ms. Hulbert notes that even Dr. Benjamin Spock, whose advice in his
> book "Baby and Child Care" was so often blamed for parental permissiveness,
> had seen enough of the consequences: "I can hardly bear to be around rude
> children," he wrote. "I have the impulse to spank them, and to give a
> lecture to their parents."
> *Mr. Woodlief's pamphlet "Raising Wild Boys Into Men: A Modern Dad's
> Survival Guide" is available from the New Pamphleteer. *
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>
>
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>
>  1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
> __________________________________________________
> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>
>