[Rhodes22-list] Brad: Re: Raising Children: Ben Stein...OOPS

[elle]

Brad,
 
 i guess i've been in a cave for a while...I've just recently heard of Stein. I read two newspapers daily...but only have made acquaintance with him through the articles my friends send me.
 
 Both Stein & Sykes are common sense all the way. Can't see how this appeals to our self-centered, me-first, 'I'm not responsible' society. ((Sarcasm warning..)
 
 You know everyone's kids are perfect...the other families have the self-centered ones...;^)
 
 Guess I gotta get out more.....or maybe hide a bit deeper in the closet.....;^)
 
 elle

Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote: Elle,

I love Ben Stein.  He's a great financial guru along with all his other
talents.  I just stumbled across a recommendation for this book today.  From
the publishers notes it sounds good.  I'm going to order it tomorrow.

Brad

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/031236038X?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwviolentkicom&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=031236038X

On 9/9/07, elle  wrote:
>
> OOPS>>Where'd it go???
>
>   I think it'll appear now..
>
>   elle  wrote:    Brad,
>
> Rec'd this from an elegant, creative, artistic and talented teacher friend
> w/more than 35 yrs experience the same day you posted yours..Not trying to
> ignite anything ;^); just seems apropos to your earlier post.
>
> Her comment is first, then the Ben Stein piece that she references.
>
>
> elle
>
>
> >From my friend:
>
>
>     I don't usually forward things that  could offend my friends and
> relatives.  And, I hope this does not offend anyone.  One's beliefs, like
> one's politics are one's own business.  But, there were a couple of lines
> here that I have been thinking about as I have taken on a new school and a
> new kind of job in the past couple of years.....I have wondered how there
> can be so many many angry and disfunctional kids and parents out there....so
> many damaged souls.....
>
>   Just yesterday I had two young girls in the restroom afterschool shout
> obscenities at me as I asked if they were smoking.....the room was dense
> with smoke......Use your imagination as to what they said to me......As I
> was complaining to my department chair about the numbers of this kids who
> seem to have no sense of how to behave with each other, how to have respect
> for authority, how to use basic things like pencils, scissors, and glue
> without hurting themselves or others, we talked about our own time growing
> up......We both went to school together in this county and were often in the
> same classes.  We remember some kids who had less material goods than
> others.  We remembered a child who was on crutches all his life.  We
> remember kids who were slower and faster physically and academically.  We
> remembered that we all played together at recess and that there were no
> bullies in our classes.  No one had to sit out because of behavior. No one
> sassed the teacher or principal.
> No one threatened anyone.  No one took a gun to school to shoot kids
> although there were probably lots of guns in the cars of the kids and
> teachers who hunted once we got to high school!  No one yelled obscenites at
> school sports venues....certainly not parents....and there was no
> graffiti!!!!  So what has happened?
>
>   Having taught mythology for many years, I can say that every culture
> from ancient times on seemed to have a set of rules, not unlike the Ten
> Commandments, to insure a safe and orderly environment.  Each culture had
> consequences for intemperate action.....think of Phaeton falling out of the
> sun chariot when his guilty father finally let him drive the horses across
> the sky.  To remove the all father, or the god head, or supreme being, or
> God, and not put anything in that place that would give humans guidance and
> hope may not have been a good thing.  If that's what we've done.....and....I
> certainly don't know...yet...I do wonder sometimes......
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>       #yiv2082510708 v\:* { }#yiv2082510708 o\:* {}#yiv2082510708 w\:*
> {}#yiv2082510708 .shape {}    #yiv2082510708 st1\:*{}
>
>
>
>     The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS
> Sunday Morning Commentary.
>
> My confession:
>
> I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish.  And it does
> not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up,
> bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel
> discriminated against. That's what they are:   Christmas trees.
>
> It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I
> don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In
> fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters
> celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there
> is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in
> Malibu. If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah
> a few hundred yards away.
>
> I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think
> Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people
> who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I
> have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly
> atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it
> being shoved down my throat.
>
> Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we
> should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we
> understand Him?   I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too.  But
> there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and
> where the America we knew went to.
>
> In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a
> little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's
> intended to get you thinking.
>
> Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson
> asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding
> Katrina)   Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.
> She said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but
> for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of
> our government and to get out of our lives.  And being the gentleman He is,
> I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His
> blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"
>
> In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I
> think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body
> found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we
> said OK.
> Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says
> thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as
> yourself. And we said OK.
>
> Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they
> misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might
> damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an
> expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
>
> Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they
> don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill
> strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
>
> Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out.
> I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."
>
> Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the
> world's going to hell.   Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but
> question what the Bible says.  Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail
> and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding
> the Lord, people think twice about sharing.  Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar
> and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion
> of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
>
> Are you laughing?
>
> Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on
> your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they
> will think of you for sending it.
>
> Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than
> what God thinks of us.
>
> Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no
> one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit
> back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.  My Best Regards.
> Honestly and respectfully,
>
> Ben Stein
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Brad Haslett wrote:
> Been a bit busy "raising" the Coast this week for any serious reading. I
> stumbled across this article this morning and thought it pretty good - and
> funny. Brad
>
> -------------------------
>
> *Don't Suffer the Little Children*
> A father of four explains the realist approach to parenting.
>
> *BY TONY WOODLIEF*
> *Friday, September 7, 2007 12:01 a.m.*
>
> Another school year has sprung itself upon us, which is always an occasion
> for my wife, a former Detroit public-school teacher, and me to remind
> ourselves why we home-school. Part of the reason, in addition to my wife's
> expertise in this area, can be found in Thomas Sowell's "A Conflict of
> Visions," published 20 years ago. Mr. Sowell contrasted the "unconstrained
> vision" of utopians, who want to radically improve humankind, with the
> "constrained vision" of realists, who begin with the proposition that man
> is
> inherently self-interested, and not moldable into whatever form the
> high-minded types have in store for us once they get their itchy fingers
> on
> the levers of power. Mr. Sowell's book has been influential among
> conservatives for its compelling explanation of the divide between people
> who want to reshape us--often via large intrusions on liberty--and those
> who
> believe that the purpose of government is to protect institutions (like
> markets and families) that channel our inherent selfishness into
> productive
> behavior. It is also a handy guide for parenting.
>
> While some mothers and fathers stubbornly cling to the utopian beliefs of
> their childless years, the vision of humans as inherently sinful and
> selfish
> resonates with many of us who are parents. Nobody who's stood between a
> toddler and the last cookie should still harbor a belief in the inherent
> virtue of mankind. An afternoon at the playground is apt to make one toss
> out the idealist Rousseau ("man is a compassionate and sensible being") in
> favor of the more realistic Hobbes ("all mankind [is in] a perpetual and
> restless desire for power"). As a father of four sons, I've signed on to
> Mr.
> Sowell's summation of a parent's duty: "Each new generation born is in
> effect an invasion of civilization by little barbarians, who must be
> civilized before it is too late."
>
> The constrained vision indicates that world harmony and universal
> satisfaction are mirages. People are innately selfish, and they'll always
> desire more goodies. This means that tradeoffs between competing wants are
> inevitable. My wife and I therefore forbid our children to use the word
> "fair." Parents still in the thrall of the unconstrained worldview are
> prone
> to manipulation by their kids, who like little human-rights lawyers insist
> on fairness as an imperative. And don't get me started on the damage that
> an
> exaggerated sense of fairness and entitlement has done to public schools.
> In
> our house things are much simpler: That last piece of cake had to be
> divided
> somehow, and in this imperfect world your brother got the extra frosting.
> Deal with it.
>
> While the unconstrained worldview teaches that traditions and customs are
> to
> be distrusted as holdovers from benighted generations, those of us with
> the
> constrained view believe it's good to make our children address their
> elders
> properly, refrain from belching at the table and wear clothes that
> actually
> cover them. Mr. Sowell noted that some benefits from evolved societal
> rules
> can't be articulated, because they've developed through trial and error
> over
> centuries. This reveals the sublime wisdom in that time-honored parental
> rejoinder: "Because I said so."
>
> It's not surprising, then, to see Mr. Sowell approvingly cite Edmund
> Burke's
> observation that traditions provide "wisdom without reflection." This is
> lived out in our house by the dictum that parents are to be obeyed first,
> and politely questioned later. That seems oppressive to parents with the
> unconstrained worldview, who want to nurture Junior's sense of autonomy
> and
> broad-minded reasoning. It's awfully useful, however, when Junior is about
> to ride his bike into the path of an oncoming car. Obedience may be a
> dirty
> word in progressive schools and enlightened parenting circles, but it
> saves
> lives.
>
> Mr. Sowell also notes that among those espousing the unconstrained view,
> intentions are pre-eminent; utopians are cooking up a better tomorrow,
> after
> all, and should be excused for breaking a few million eggs while making
> the
> human omelet. In our house, however, you are in big trouble if you push
> your
> brother into the pool, regardless of the sincerity behind your desire that
> he learn to swim without his floaties. Hiding an animal trap directly on
> the
> path Dad takes to get his morning paper is likewise unacceptable, no
> matter
> how badly you want to catch a critter. And while other parents cherish
> whatever art their little Monets create, we punish activities that
> incorporate Mom's jewelry and Superglue, no matter how glittery the final
> product.
>
> Many parents in the unconstrained camp adhere to Rousseau's sentiment:
> "Man
> is born free, but everywhere is in chains." They not only fail to punish
> bad
> behavior but snarl at anyone who rebukes their precious darlings. In our
> house we have reversed Rousseau's theory: You are born in bondage and
> should
> be darn grateful for the free room and board. Besides, if you want to talk
> about restrictions on liberty you can take it up with your mother, who
> hasn't had an uninterrupted trip to the bathroom since 2001.
>
> I sometimes speak to groups of high-school and college students, and I
> have
> taken to disabusing them of the feel-good notion that they can do anything
> they want so long as they are passionate about it. Intentions, as Mr.
> Sowell
> observes, mean very little in the constrained worldview--and, besides,
> individuals are neither equal nor perfectible. This means that some of us
> will dig ditches for a living, especially if those certain someones, who
> know full well who I'm talking about, don't stop shooting spitballs at
> their
> brothers and get back to their math workbooks. Firmly in the constrained
> camp, I'm less concerned that my children self-actualize at an early age
> than that they learn a trade and get out of the house.
>
> As it turns out, this tension between realists and utopians has existed
> for
> at least as long as people have been making a buck dispensing wisdom about
> how other folks should raise their kids. Ann Hulbert's "Raising America:
> Experts, Parents, and a Century of Advice about America" reveals
> successive
> generations of disciplinarians pitted against "gentler Rousseauian"
> proponents of the inherent goodness of a child's nature. Ms. Hulbert
> quotes
> the president of the National Congress of Mothers proclaiming in 1897 that
> science-based parenting innovations would so change civilization that
> "those
> of us who live to see the year 1925 will behold a new world and a new
> people." Fast forward past two world wars and the global ravages of
> utopian
> totalitarianism to 2006, when education expert Stephanie Marshall writes
> exuberantly that "the fundamental purpose of schooling is to liberate the
> goodness and genius of children."
>
> Perhaps the fundamental purpose of schooling should be to liberate parents
> from the necessity of supporting our kids well past our retirement years.
> But regardless, this notion that humans are inherently angelic, and that
> it
> is society that corrupts them, is at the heart of much bad parenting, as
> well as inept schooling. Rather than help our children develop internal
> constraints that channel their energy and passion into productive
> enterprises, we end up teaching them that limits and discipline are for
> chumps. Ms. Hulbert notes that even Dr. Benjamin Spock, whose advice in
> his
> book "Baby and Child Care" was so often blamed for parental
> permissiveness,
> had seen enough of the consequences: "I can hardly bear to be around rude
> children," he wrote. "I have the impulse to spank them, and to give a
> lecture to their parents."
> *Mr. Woodlief's pamphlet "Raising Wild Boys Into Men: A Modern Dad's
> Survival Guide" is available from the New Pamphleteer. *
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>
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>
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>
>
> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
>
> 1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)
>
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We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.

 1992 Rhodes 22   Recyc '06  "WaterMusic"   (Lady in Red)
       
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