[Rhodes22-list] U.S. medical system leading cause of death - comment to Peter

Rik Sandberg sanderico1 at gmail.com
Thu Apr 24 15:10:44 EDT 2008 

Herb,

True. That is probably the biggest detriment to good medicine that man 
has ever devised.

But I figured we'd all already agree on that anyway. :-)

Rik

"Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg



Herb Parsons wrote:
> In addition to the other information provided so far, you have to also 
> factor in the fact that there is an entire industry whose livelihood is 
> dependent on proving that the doctor/medical providor was "to blame". 
> There's little doubt that lawyers have helped make the numbers look 
> greater than they are.
>
> Rik Sandberg wrote:
>   
>> Mike,
>>
>> Good point, but my "Somebody isn't very good at statistics" was meant to 
>> be ironical.
>>
>> Don't believe for a minute though, that I am confusing anything with 
>> fact. Most of the "statistics" on these sites begin to make sense when 
>> you consider who is going to benefit from the money spent by the suck 
>> ..... uh, believers. Most of the math looks pretty fuzzy to me and 
>> always slants the way the particular vendor needs it to. Also, for the 
>> 26 years I knew her before her stroke, my wife was involved in the 
>> medical profession (respiratory therapist). We have had many, MANY 
>> discussions about problems caused by drugs and/or combinations of them.
>>
>> I've spent quite a bit of time on the internet the last two years trying 
>> to find things that might help my wife after her stroke. Many of the 
>> pages that come up when you Google Pete's "us medical system
>> number one cause of deaths" are pages that I have seen before as I have 
>> searched for both natural remedies that might be useful and problems 
>> that I might expect to encounter with the various pharmaceuticals that 
>> have been prescribed to my wife.
>>
>> In defense of the doctors though, I find it troubling that the 
>> supposedly knowledgeable people writing these sites so easily put the 
>> blame on a "doctors mistake" when folks have problems with side effects 
>> from a drug. Anyone who has been around medicine for more than a few 
>> minutes should know that every human is different and it is impossible 
>> to know in advance what an individual's reaction will be to any given 
>> drug. Some people tolerate things and others don't. All the doctor can 
>> do is try different things and learn from the results for each 
>> individual. In this case a decision may be wrong, but that doesn't 
>> necessarily make it a mistake.
>>
>> But, as I said earlier, I/we don't like pharmaceutical pills/drugs in 
>> general and avoid them whenever possible.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Rik,
>>>
>>> On the contrary, somebody is very good with statistics.  According to Mark Twain, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."  Please do not confuse what is written on the Internet with fact.  One must verify, corroborate and validate the materials.
>>>
>>> Without taking sides on this issue since I am involved in the US system of medical care, I am moved to investigate further before dismissing the material.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>
>>> From: "Rik Sandberg" <sanderico1 at gmail.com>Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:59 AM
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Perhaps we need to consider who is putting these statistics out here for 
>>>> us. Looks like most of these folks would like to sell us some 
>>>> nutritional supplements. I am not a fan of doctors and pills. I avoid 
>>>> them like the plague. I have also seen though, that the BS the 
>>>> nutritional supplement industry slings around gets pretty fantastic. 
>>>> While I do believe that nutritional supplements are less likely to do 
>>>> you harm than pharmaceuticals, chances are, they won't live up to the 
>>>> miracle claims made about them either.
>>>>
>>>> One article has heart disease deaths at 910,000 annually. Another says 
>>>> 700,000. Quite a spread. Somebody isn't very good at statistics.
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>> "Stupid is supposed to be painful" .... Rik Sandberg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> No sir. You are absolutely 100% incorrect. This is based on statistical
>>>>> evidence. I won't do your research for you. Just google 'us medical system
>>>>> number one cause of deaths'.  It's a tough pill to swallow. (pun intended). 
>>>>>
>>>>> "New information has been presented showing the degree to which Americans
>>>>> have been subjected to injury and death by medical errors. The results of
>>>>> seven years of research reviewing thousands of studies conducted by the NIA
>>>>> now show that medical errors are the number one cause of death and injury in
>>>>> the United States. According to the NIA's report, over 784,000 people die
>>>>> annually due to medical mistakes. Comparatively, the 2001 annual death rate
>>>>> for heart disease was 699,697 and the annual death rate for cancer was
>>>>> 553,251."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When making such statements, please post citations and references.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would suggest that your citations will come from the media which goes
>>>>>> out of its way to cause controversy to drum up business.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Medical mistakes do occur, but having spent many years in several
>>>>>> hospitals; I would say your statement is not accurate.  Especially when
>>>>>> compared to medical care around the world.  Yes, I have personally
>>>>>> inspected health care in a 3rd world country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would rather suggest that you consider that people doing ‘stupid’ things
>>>>>> is the leading cause of death.  That would include reckless driving, no
>>>>>> life preservers while boating, smoking, excessive alcohol, excessive and
>>>>>> recreational drugs, suicide, believing the national media that the world
>>>>>> is ending, believing the national media that all is negative...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, like many others, the national media has created a herd sheep
>>>>>> mentality...  Remember, that man was not created to live forever.  That
>>>>>> disease and pestilence are our lot.  Take each hour given you, do your
>>>>>> best and enjoy it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime, remember that physicians use available science to fix a
>>>>>> problem and get people going a few hours longer.  They are not ‘God’.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, they can be stifled by bureaucratic controlled systems.  They can
>>>>>> be stifled by socialism.  Socialism kills human initiative.  Doctors are
>>>>>> only human, and their initiative and imagination can be debilitated
>>>>>> fighting socialistic controlled systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>> “Every great advancement in science has issued from a new audacity of
>>>>>> imagination.” John Dewey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> petelargo wrote:
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Thanks for your post. You will see plenty scare tactic e-mails and 'BOO'
>>>>>>> blogs on this in the upcoming months. Most will be nonsense.  By what
>>>>>>> measure is the current health care system so great if right now the
>>>>>>> health care system itself in the united states is the leading cause of
>>>>>>> death? Somethings wrong and I mean big time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lynn Hoffman wrote:
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> I noticed in one of the recent diatribes, a letter from someone who
>>>>>>>> claimed
>>>>>>>> that socialism killed his parents. There's a lot to be said about 
>>>>>>>> that letter, but
>>>>>>>> I think I'll just comment on the claim that there are only three 
>>>>>>>> oncologists in Montreal.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I've come to know a little bit about oncologists and
>>>>>>>> where to
>>>>>>>> find 'em. Here's the medical roster of the oncology department at one 
>>>>>>>> hospital there. (McGill)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr Gerald Batist - Chair
>>>>>>>> Penny Chipman, Manager, Clinical Research Program
>>>>>>>> Fran Ezzy-Jorgensen, Administrative Officer, Department of Oncology
>>>>>>>> Dr Eduardo Franco - Cancer Division of Epidemiology
>>>>>>>> Dr Carolyn Freeman - Division of Radiation Oncology
>>>>>>>> Dr. Thomas Jagoe - Cancer Nutrition-Rehabilitation Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Petr Kavan - Adolescent and Young Adult Oncology Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Carmen Loiselle - Oncology Nursing
>>>>>>>> Dr Richard Margolese - Oncology Department, JGH
>>>>>>>> Dr Catalin Mihalcioiu - Division of Medical Oncology
>>>>>>>> Dr Wilson Miller - Clinical Research Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Lawrence Panasci - Division of Medical Oncology
>>>>>>>> Dr Michael Pollack - Cancer Prevention Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Jaroslav Prchal - Community Oncology Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Zeev Rosberger - Psychosocial Oncology Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Jeremy Sturgeon - Oncology Department, MUHC
>>>>>>>> Dr Simon Tanguay - Prostate Cancer Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Marc Tischkowitz - Cancer Genetics Program
>>>>>>>> Dr Anna Towers - Palliative Care
>>>>>>>> Dr Michel Tremblay - Basic Cancer Research
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the guy who wrote that is a patent liar. The sad thing is that 
>>>>>>>> many people will read that and remember something about how 
>>>>>>>> 'socialized medicine killed somebody and ain't it a shame?' The good 
>>>>>>>> news is that this crap is the best they got and maybe we'll get 
>>>>>>>> somewhere with health care when people know the facts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lynn
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>> Lynn Hoffman is the author of bang BANG, a novel about a woman who 
>>>>>>>> uses some unusual weapons to tackle the gun culture in Philadelphia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He is also the author of  The New Short Course in Wine from
>>>>>>>> PrenticeHall.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More? want to read rave reviews? an excerpt?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.kunati.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can read more and order a copy of bang-BANG from:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1601640005
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or from your local bookseller.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you're looking for great wines for less than $US20, get the latest 
>>>>>>>> finds at http://shortcourseinwine.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>           
>>>>>>             
>>>>>   
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
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