[Rhodes22-list] ALICE WEISZ - my comment

Tue Aug 26 19:01:10 EDT 2008

Paul,

Thanks so much for your input (and that of your mechanic).  I did find a trustworthy mechanic on Kent Island (Eric at Cox Creek Services) who was willing to go to my boat and work on the motor.  He too, cited the carburetor as the culprit and cleaned it out using lots of the the Startron additive to the gas (made by Starbrite - to explain a prior Rhodie's posting) ; when I added more gas he advised more Strartron to go with it.  My engine is NOT purring, but he said that if I'm willing to go along with it, as is, I can defer the purchase of a new carburetor at approx $400. plus labor - my response: my cat purrs, and that's enough for me as long as I can get the engine into gear.  Needless to say, I was off sailing the next day and the day after that!!

I was fascinated by your explanation of the the tiny opening in the carburetor.  Can you describe where it is??  My manual doesn't even NAME the carburetor and although I THINK I know where it is, I don't yet know how to disconnect it or get inside of it to clean.  Any possibility that you could describe it to me?????   I'd be appreciative.  Since my engine is autostart, I have an electric "gismo" (black columnar apparatus) sitting atop the big silver metal "thing" that I think is the carburetor.  The latter has an opening that I would compare with a crosshatched grate that is round.  It's where I've been spraying all the "Carburetor cleaner" to no avail.  I removed the electric "gismo" (industry term) on top but chickened out at that point (once I see electric wires, my mind says: stay clear for fear of disconnecting one and then REALLY being screwed).

If I were an artistic sort, I might draw the thing, but I'm not... and I've never figured out how to use PAINT or any of the creative computer features.  I'm strictly a scientist... my idea of drawing involves arrows and possibly stick figures.  I'd like to be able to try the 'twist tie' approach in the future, if needed.  Actually, pipe cleaners come to mind bathed in an organic solvent....or Startron.  The mechanic DID install a small filter on the gas hose between tank and bulb.  We discussed the 10 micron filter but he explained that it was rather large and wasn't exactly sure where he'd be able to install it  - possibly the lazarette although if I understood correctly, he might have said that it's usually exterior to the boat.

Again, thanks for your advice and insight.

Alice
BEATS PROZAC 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Krawitz<mailto:krawitzmail-rhodes22 at yahoo.com> 
  To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
  Cc: stan<mailto:stan at rhodes22.com> 
  Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 9:02 AM
  Subject: [Rhodes22-list] ALICE WEISZ - my comment

  Alice,
  I too expressed distressed helplessness, directly to
  Stan, when my engine died on me a minute AFTER
  starting, leaving me a dead duck on my mooring.
  And I'm out frequently - three times per week - so
  all the disuse/old gas explanations didn't apply.

  And like you, I used to be "hands off" with the engine.

  I've done less than you, but with the guidance of the
  good Rhodies and my Yamaha mechanic, have figured
  out the problem with these Yamaha 4-stroke engines
  (Stan previously used the 9.9, but is now using the 8HP).

  Previous posts have correctly noted that Ethanol, (ethyl
  alcohol), binds with water, resulting in a gas-water separation,
  with water at the bottom where the hose rests in your tank.
  This is primarily a problem with lengthy cold weather storage
  of incompletely filled tanks.

  But because Ethanol is a small
  molecule<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#Physical_properties>with<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#Physical_properties>with>
  a small carbon chain,
  it acts not only as a water soluble solvent but also as an organic solvent.
  This latter characteristic is why Ethanol is able to dissolve crud
  and old plastics, dispersing the material in small
  particles<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Gasoline-EthanolYourBoat.htm>that<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Gasoline-EthanolYourBoat.htm%3Ethat>
  foul up the engine.

  Now here is the Achilles heel in the whole system...

  Unlike two stroke engines, which have large jets
  that vacuum the gas/oil mix into the carburetor, those on the
  four-stroke engines are so narrow that my mechanic cannot even
  use his normal tools to clean them out. Instead, as he showed
  me yesterday, he burns the end off of a twist tie and uses that
  to thread through the carburetor jets.

  The jets are so narrow that holding them up to the sky,
  I could barely see daylight through them. And that was
  after they were cleaned out.

  The bottom line?

  You could clean out the fuel line, filter, and carburetor itself
  till you were blue in the face, and fail to fix your problem.

  In fact, my engine, which failed me for the second time
  this weekend, had NOTHING VISIBLE blocking the the
  gas flow. But after my mechanic threaded the twist ties through the
  carburetor - Voila! It started.

  Once the jets are cleaned out, the answer to reduce these incidents is
  to get an inline filter that fits immediately after the gas tank.
  My mechanic said he would have recommended a 10 micron
  filter, such as this one previously
  posted<http://www.crockersmarinestore.com/servlet/the-44/Yamaha-10-Micron-Fuel/Detail<http://www.crockersmarinestore.com/servlet/the-44/Yamaha-10-Micron-Fuel/Detail>>,
  but that "because
  my boat was so small," he'd put on a tiny one inch filter instead.

  That's not a problem, I told him. Give me the big sucker.
  Thanks to the excellent design of my Rhodes
  22<http://www.rhodes22.com/contruction_detail.html<http://www.rhodes22.com/contruction_detail.html>>,
  I've got plenty
  of room below my cockpit bench.

  He's actually recommending another filter that's similar, but
  not identical. Apparently, the Yamaha filter isn't entirely
  aluminum. The screw of the top rusts inside; he showed me one
  that this happened to.

  My mechanic said that new boats should be installed with
  the filter already in place and that the ethanol related fuel
  problems are ubiquitous on four stroke engines, both large
  and small.

  I expect that this filter will reduce, but not eliminate the
  starting problems that I've had. It's a system destined for
  failure, with the constant battle raging on between the
  Ethanol-laced gasoline and those puny carburetor jets.
  And I hate feeling so  paralyzed on a day that I really
  want to get out and simply sail. After all, one of the
  characteristics of Rhodes 22 sailors <http://www.rhodes22.org<http://www.rhodes22.org/>> is that we
  actually
  use our boats.

  Now don't laugh, but during my second painful fiasco,
  I entertained the idea of having a backup electric battery outboard
  motor, such as the Torqeedo electric
  outboard<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/265317/377%20710%20884/0/Electric%20Outboards/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%20884&Ne=0&Ntt=Electric%20Outboards&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5005&subdeptNum=10&classNum=820<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/265317/377%20710%20884/0/Electric%20Outboards/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%20884&Ne=0&Ntt=Electric%20Outboards&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5005&subdeptNum=10&classNum=820>>.
  It's portable,
  takes only a few minutes to assemble, and would be terrific
  insurance. Unfortunately, even the long shaft version, which I
  envisioned hanging off the transom while my outboard gets its next
  inevitable
  service call, is too short as described on the Torqeedo web
  site<http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/base-travel/technical-data-measures.html<http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/base-travel/technical-data-measures.html>>
  .

  A final recommendation about the choke on these engines from
  my mechanic. He said not to try to start them with the choke
  fully open unless the weather was cold. First, try starting
  them with the choke closed. Next, start it with the choke
  closed and during the cranking, open the choke for three seconds
  before closing it again. If that doesn't work, open the choke halfway. Only
  as a last step should you start with the choke fully open.

  One more note to SS: The technique of putting the throttle
  in gear and opening the throttle back and forth a few times
  before putting it in neutral and starting doesn't work on the 8 HP engine
  because there is no accelerator pump in the carburetor on that engine
  (per my crusty old Yamaha mechanic).

  The bottom line? We're going to all have to take measures to reduce
  these engine failures. But be prepared for more frustrations, because the
  engines are not yet designed to counteract the minefield of gasohol.

  Paul Krawitz
  __________________________________________________
  To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
  __________________________________________________