[Rhodes22-list] ALICE WEISZ - my comment

Wed Aug 27 06:31:57 EDT 2008

Alice,
I've seen very few cases where the carburetor actually needed to be  
replaced. A good mechanic would be able to remove it from your motor and rebuild  it 
after soaking in a cleaner to remove any deposits. The whole procedure  
shouldn't be more than $50.00.

Rummy

In a message dated 8/26/2008 7:01:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
amicw5 at msn.com writes:

Paul,

Thanks so much for your input (and that of your  mechanic).  I did find a 
trustworthy mechanic on Kent Island (Eric at Cox  Creek Services) who was willing 
to go to my boat and work on the motor.   He too, cited the carburetor as the 
culprit and cleaned it out using lots of  the the Startron additive to the 
gas (made by Starbrite - to explain a prior  Rhodie's posting) ; when I added 
more gas he advised more Strartron to go with  it.  My engine is NOT purring, 
but he said that if I'm willing to go  along with it, as is, I can defer the 
purchase of a new carburetor at approx  $400. plus labor - my response: my cat 
purrs, and that's enough for me as long  as I can get the engine into gear.  
Needless to say, I was off sailing  the next day and the day after that!!

I was fascinated by your  explanation of the the tiny opening in the 
carburetor.  Can you describe  where it is??  My manual doesn't even NAME the 
carburetor and although I  THINK I know where it is, I don't yet know how to 
disconnect it or get inside  of it to clean.  Any possibility that you could describe 
it to  me?????   I'd be appreciative.  Since my engine is autostart, I  have an 
electric "gismo" (black columnar apparatus) sitting atop the big  silver 
metal "thing" that I think is the carburetor.  The latter has an  opening that I 
would compare with a crosshatched grate that is round.   It's where I've been 
spraying all the "Carburetor cleaner" to no avail.   I removed the electric 
"gismo" (industry term) on top but chickened out at  that point (once I see 
electric wires, my mind says: stay clear for fear of  disconnecting one and then 
REALLY being screwed).

If I were an artistic  sort, I might draw the thing, but I'm not... and I've 
never figured out how to  use PAINT or any of the creative computer features.  
I'm strictly a  scientist... my idea of drawing involves arrows and possibly 
stick  figures.  I'd like to be able to try the 'twist tie' approach in the  
future, if needed.  Actually, pipe cleaners come to mind bathed in an  organic 
solvent....or Startron.  The mechanic DID install a small filter  on the gas 
hose between tank and bulb.  We discussed the 10 micron filter  but he 
explained that it was rather large and wasn't exactly sure where he'd  be able to 
install it  - possibly the lazarette although if I understood  correctly, he might 
have said that it's usually exterior to the  boat.

Again, thanks for your advice and insight.

Alice
BEATS  PROZAC 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Paul  Krawitz<mailto:krawitzmail-rhodes22 at yahoo.com> 
To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
Cc: stan<mailto:stan at rhodes22.com> 
Sent: Monday, August 18,  2008 9:02 AM
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] ALICE WEISZ - my  comment

Alice,
I too expressed distressed  helplessness, directly to
Stan, when my engine died on me a minute  AFTER
starting, leaving me a dead duck on my mooring.
And  I'm out frequently - three times per week - so
all the disuse/old  gas explanations didn't apply.

And like you, I used to be "hands  off" with the engine.

I've done less than you, but with the  guidance of the
good Rhodies and my Yamaha mechanic, have  figured
out the problem with these Yamaha 4-stroke engines
(Stan previously used the 9.9, but is now using the 8HP).

Previous posts have correctly noted that Ethanol, (ethyl
alcohol),  binds with water, resulting in a gas-water separation,
with water at  the bottom where the hose rests in your tank.
This is primarily a  problem with lengthy cold weather storage
of incompletely filled  tanks.

But because Ethanol is a small
molecule<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#Physical_properties>with<http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#Physical_properties>with>
a small carbon chain,
it acts not only as a water soluble solvent  but also as an organic solvent.
This latter characteristic is why  Ethanol is able to dissolve crud
and old plastics, dispersing the  material in small
particles<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/1000
1/-1/10001/Gasoline-EthanolYourBoat.htm>that<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/
wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Gasoline-EthanolYourBoat.htm%3Et
hat>
foul up the engine.

Now here is the Achilles heel in the whole  system...

Unlike two stroke engines, which have large  jets
that vacuum the gas/oil mix into the carburetor, those on  the
four-stroke engines are so narrow that my mechanic cannot  even
use his normal tools to clean them out. Instead, as he  showed
me yesterday, he burns the end off of a twist tie and uses  that
to thread through the carburetor jets.

The jets  are so narrow that holding them up to the sky,
I could barely see  daylight through them. And that was
after they were cleaned  out.

The bottom line?

You could clean out the fuel  line, filter, and carburetor itself
till you were blue in the face,  and fail to fix your problem.

In fact, my engine, which failed  me for the second time
this weekend, had NOTHING VISIBLE blocking  the the
gas flow. But after my mechanic threaded the twist ties  through the
carburetor - Voila! It started.

Once the  jets are cleaned out, the answer to reduce these incidents is
to get  an inline filter that fits immediately after the gas tank.
My  mechanic said he would have recommended a 10 micron
filter, such as  this one previously
posted<http://www.crockersmarinestore.com/servlet/the-44/Yamaha-10-Micron-Fuel
/Detail<http://www.crockersmarinestore.com/servlet/the-44/Yamaha-10-Micron-Fue
l/Detail>>,
but that "because
my boat was so small," he'd put on a tiny one inch  filter instead.

That's not a problem, I told him. Give me the  big sucker.
Thanks to the excellent design of my Rhodes
22<http://www.rhodes22.c
om/contruction_detail.html<http://www.rhodes22.com/contruction_detail.html>>,
I've got plenty
of room below my cockpit bench.

He's  actually recommending another filter that's similar, but
not  identical. Apparently, the Yamaha filter isn't entirely
aluminum.  The screw of the top rusts inside; he showed me one
that this  happened to.

My mechanic said that new boats should be installed  with
the filter already in place and that the ethanol related  fuel
problems are ubiquitous on four stroke engines, both  large
and small.

I expect that this filter will  reduce, but not eliminate the
starting problems that I've had. It's  a system destined for
failure, with the constant battle raging on  between the
Ethanol-laced gasoline and those puny carburetor  jets.
And I hate feeling so  paralyzed on a day that I  really
want to get out and simply sail. After all, one of  the
characteristics of Rhodes 22 sailors  
<http://www.rhodes22.org<http://www.rhodes22.org/>> is that  we
actually
use our boats.

Now don't laugh,  but during my second painful fiasco,
I entertained the idea of  having a backup electric battery outboard
motor, such as the  Torqeedo electric
outboard<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1
/10001/265317/377%20710%20884/0/Electric%20Outboards/Primary%20Search/mode%20m
atchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%20884&Ne=0&Ntt=Electric%20Outboards&Ntx=mode%20
matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5005&subd
eptNum=10&classNum=820<http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/pro
ducte/10001/-1/10001/265317/377%20710%20884/0/Electric%20Outboards/Primary%20S
earch/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%20884&Ne=0&Ntt=Electric%20Outboar
ds&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&stor
eNum=5005&subdeptNum=10&classNum=820>>.
It's portable,
takes only a few minutes to assemble, and would be  terrific
insurance. Unfortunately, even the long shaft version,  which I
envisioned hanging off the transom while my outboard gets  its next
inevitable
service call, is too short as  described on the Torqeedo web
site<http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/base-travel/technical-data-measure
s.html<http://www.torqeedo.com/us/hn/products/base-travel/technical-data-measu
res.html>>
.

A final recommendation about the choke on these engines  from
my mechanic. He said not to try to start them with the  choke
fully open unless the weather was cold. First, try  starting
them with the choke closed. Next, start it with the  choke
closed and during the cranking, open the choke for three  seconds
before closing it again. If that doesn't work, open the  choke halfway. Only
as a last step should you start with the choke  fully open.

One more note to SS: The technique of putting the  throttle
in gear and opening the throttle back and forth a few  times
before putting it in neutral and starting doesn't work on the  8 HP engine
because there is no accelerator pump in the carburetor  on that engine
(per my crusty old Yamaha mechanic).

The bottom line? We're going to all have to take measures to reduce
these engine failures. But be prepared for more frustrations, because  the
engines are not yet designed to counteract the minefield of  gasohol.

Paul Krawitz
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