[Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Mon Dec 1 14:04:46 EST 2008
On what do you base the notion that "all men (and women) have morals"?
Are you prepared to face some evidence that your assumption is wrong?
Todd Tavares wrote:
> Herb, " if a man does NOT have
> religion (of some sort), then his morals are based only on what he
> believes to be right or wrong. Good point. But those who believe there
> is nothing greater than ourselves and when we die it is "game over" must have
> faith that all men have some base set of morals. I have faith that all
> men (and women) have morals. I guess this means I should stop carrying my
> .357? :^D
> Todd T
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Herb Parsons"
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Herb's Response
> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:57:14 -0600
>
>
> Right after I hit send, it occurred to me, I did not directly answer
> your question.
>
> No, I am not of the opinion that man would not have morals without
> religion. I AM of the opinion though, that if a man does NOT have
> religion (of some sort), then his morals are based only on what he
> believes to be right or wrong. And, as we know, human nature is a
> fickle
> entity, and personally guided beliefs are subject to change on a
> whim.
>
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > Herb, I am not religious but I don't knock those that are. I would
> have to
> > trash to many friends and family.
> >
> > Are you of the opinion that man would not have morals/values
> without
> > religion? I would suggest the values may have come first. Then once
> > established the Bible, Koran and such were written. Most animals
> have a
> > level of acceptable herd/pack behaviour.
> >
> > Regarding karma....if you treat people like trash most likely
> others will
> > treat you the same. Like the old expression what goes around comes
> around.
> > For me nothing religious about it.
> >
> > Fair Winds,
> >
> > Wally
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Herb Parsons wrote:
> >
> >
> >> You caught that, huh?
> >>
> >> When I asked on here what constituted "extremists" in religion,
> one of
> >> the responses I got, when you boiled it down, was that basically
> if you
> >> belong to any of the mainstream religions, and actually believe
> what
> >> they preach, you're an extremist.
> >>
> >> I would appear that we are heading for a time when "religion" is
> >> acceptable only when the churches are social or political
> organizations.
> >> In other words, belonging to a church will be acceptable as long
> as your
> >> church isn't religious.
> >>
> >> That will be a sad state of affairs on a nation whose roots are
> founded
> >> in freedom of religion.
> >>
> >> Even Slim hinted at a "religious belief" though he probably won't
> >> acknowledge it as such:
> >>
> >> "Karma--what goes around comes round--I wouldn't argue with that
> >> although I don't think that's a hard and fast rule."
> >>
> >> I have to wonder, even if it's not a "hard and fast rule", even if
> it's
> >> something that only happens most of the time - what is the
> actuating
> >> mechanism? What would cause the karma to take effect. Is it magic?
> Is it
> >> the great force of the universe that intervenes from time to time
> to
> >> keep things in balance? Is it the Judeo-Christian God saying "I
> meant it
> >> when I siad you mow what you sow"? Whatever supernatural entity
> that
> >> Slim believes keeps karma in balance is (at least one of) his
> god(s). He
> >> may not worship that god, but in his statement, he's at least
> >> acknowledging its existence.
> >>
> >> THAT was the point of my post that prompted his latest. And I
> STILL find
> >> it ironic that those that denigrate mainstream religion will
> freely
> >> embrace other "belief" based systems.
> >>
> >> One of Slim's fellow musicians once said:
> >>
> >> You may call me anything but no matter what you say
> >> You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
> >> You're gonna have to serve somebody.
> >> Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
> >> But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
> >>
> >>
> >> And sorry all you science buffs, there is nothing scientific that
> >> supports morality. You MAY make the argument that it's better
> socially,
> >> but that's not a scientific study. If all we're looking for is to
> "get
> >> the most" out of our three score and ten, then Ghengis Khan may
> have had
> >> a better idea.
> >>
> >> BTW, I have friends, close friends, that include a broad variety
> of
> >> religious beliefs, including agnostics and atheists. It's funny
> that in
> >> spite of my "kooky" beliefs and "extremism", I can find room for
> them
> >> and their beliefs, but some of the libs on here have no room for
> mine.
> >>
> >>
> >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>
> >>> Herb,
> >>>
> >>> The irony of Slim's rant is that he denigrates one set of
> beliefs, and
> >>> then goes on to defend his own set of beliefs (atheism). As a
> >>> practicing agnostic, I don't "have a dog in this hunt" other than
> >>> having a diverse collection of friends of all faiths.
> >>>
> >>> I've said it before and I'll say it again, those who preach
> tolerance
> >>> the most are often the most intolerant.
> >>>
> >>> Brad
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Herb Parsons
> >>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Slim,
> >>>>
> >>>> I simply believe you're wrong. Not that you're a kook, not that
> you're
> >>>> an idiot. Simply that you're wrong.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have no need to label your beliefs as "extreme" or "kookie" or
> >>>> anything else like that, just that they I believe they're wrong.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't understand the need for you and others like you to
> denigrate the
> >>>> beliefs of others. When you call the beliefs of others "myths",
> you
> >>>> begin down that road. When you start refer to it by saying
> "Merry
> >>>> Christmas", you've become obnoxious about it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Think about this, think if you came to me in the little bar we
> all like
> >>>> to discuss, and said "Hey man, music is my life, I LOVE music"
> and
> >>>> responded "Anyone who devotes a life to changing air waves is an
> idiot
> >>>> and a looser", what would be your response?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Steven Alm wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You keep bringing this up I suppose out of some kind of
> indignation.
> >>>>>
> >> As a
> >>
> >>>>> Christian, I don't blame you. You have every right to your
> religious
> >>>>> beliefs--I just don't adhere to them myself and I see religious
> >>>>>
> >> extremism as
> >>
> >>>>> a threat to our civilization. Not that I think you, yourself
> are an
> >>>>> extremist per se (and I don't know you're not) but extremism in
> >>>>>
> >> general, no
> >>
> >>>>> matter what religion, will bring nothing but conflict. I
> remember
> >>>>>
> >> hearing
> >>
> >>>>> an interview with Hamid Karzai who was asked, "If you could say
> >>>>>
> >> something to
> >>
> >>>>> Osama Bin Laden, what would you say?" His answer was, "I would
> tell
> >>>>>
> >> him
> >>
> >>>>> he's not a Muslim." He's wrong. Osama IS a Muslim. An extreme
> >>>>>
> >> Muslim.
> >>
> >>>>> Extremism is the enemy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You talked about transubstantiation. Many Christian
> denominations
> >>>>>
> >> believe
> >>
> >>>>> in that or something close. Or they believe in some kind of
> >>>>>
> >> representation
> >>
> >>>>> of that but it's all the same anyway--it's ritualized
> cannibalism. No
> >>>>> thanks! From that, all the way back to the talking snake, to
> me, it
> >>>>>
> >> sounds
> >>
> >>>>> like a myth. I'm not buyin' it. It's just too kooky.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for the other stuff you mentioned--Karma--what goes around
> comes
> >>>>> around--I wouldn't argue with that although I don't think
> that's a hard
> >>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>> fast rule. Reincarnation--I doubt it. Ghosts--no opinion. Don't
> need
> >>>>> one. The existence of God? The invisible man in the sky who
> knows
> >>>>>
> >> when you
> >>
> >>>>> are sleeping and knows when you're awake...? Merry Christmas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can have your beliefs, Herb, but I think it's all a myth.
> Religion
> >>>>> throughout all civilizations serve to answer three questions:
> Where
> >>>>>
> >> did we
> >>
> >>>>> come from? How shall we live? What happens when we die?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe I'm the kook but I believe in nature and I believe in
> love. I
> >>>>>
> >> believe
> >>
> >>>>> that when you die it's "game over" so live right--it's your
> only chance
> >>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>> be a man.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Slim
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Herb Parsons >>>>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I read an interesting study the other day. It asserted (and
> I'll
> >>>>>>
> >> openly
> >>
> >>>>>> say, I'll have a hard time finding it again, and even harder
> time
> >>>>>> vouching for it's veracity) that folks who claim to NOT
> believe in
> >>>>>>
> >> God,
> >>
> >>>>>> actually have more "faith based" beliefs than deists do.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Beliefs in "karma", "reincarnation", "ghosts", and yes, even
> "global
> >>>>>> warming morality" beliefs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lots of "religious kookiness" to go around.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My point at the time was the hypocrisy though. The person
> throwing
> >>>>>> around "religious kooks" labels was openly willing to vote for
> the VP
> >>>>>> candidate that is a practicing member of a religion that
> openly
> >>>>>>
> >> teaches
> >>
> >>>>>> that when the priest blesses the wine and wafer, it
> miraculously
> >>>>>>
> >> becomes
> >>
> >>>>>> both the blood and body of Christ Jesus.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I AM saying folks should
> be much
> >>>>>> more careful with their "kook" labels. Faith is a precious
> thing, and
> >>>>>> one of the foundations of the nation in which we live.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There's a saying - Dance with the one what brung ya.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I say we should be careful about laughing at the one that
> brung us.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, let's be honest here - you are a "religious kook"
> because you
> >>>>>>> have religious beliefs. There's nothing wrong with that, it's
> just
> >>>>>>> that you don't belong to the church of global warming or
> whatever the
> >>>>>>> accepted church of the day is. The people who preach
> tolerance the
> >>>>>>> most are the most intolerant people I know. Racist? I'll pay
> a
> >>>>>>> hundred bucks to anyone who can trace my family tree and
> figure out
> >>>>>>> what race I am. Make it a thousand for my daughter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Herb Parsons <
> >>>>>>>
> >> hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Much like the political mood of the country, my moods swing
> >>>>>>>>
> >> different
> >>
> >>>>>>>> ways. While you have been reading the posts the last two
> months, you
> >>>>>>>> missed those before that. Those where, attempts at rational
> >>>>>>>>
> >> discussion
> >>
> >>>>>>>> were met with "religious kook" and "racist" and, one of my
> all time
> >>>>>>>> favorites "democrats are the thinkers and debaters,
> republicans are
> >>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>> just believers". Attempts at rational discussion were
> one-sided. I
> >>>>>>>>
> >> would
> >>
> >>>>>>>> ask what made one a religious kook, and was just met with
> additional
> >>>>>>>> abuse. I would ask how my view made me racist, and simply be
> met
> >>>>>>>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>>>>>>> more abuse. Eventually, I decided to agree with Elle's (as
> of that
> >>>>>>>>
> >> time
> >>
> >>>>>>>> unvoiced opinion) that sometimes the "c" works.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But, I'll play nicely. I'll always play at least as nice,
> and may
> >>>>>>>>
> >> even
> >>
> >>>>>>>> go the extra step for a while.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I understand and I agree with you. I did not mean to
> suggest that
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> were being irrational. But you got the point because you
> said:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "It may be 'stooping to the same level', it may be
> unnecessary, it
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> may
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> (and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> probably does) escalate things, but it's not irrational.
> Countering
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> personal attack with another one is not only rational, it
> can often
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> instructional. And, it's a very good release mechanism."
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Therefore, what I meant to suggest is that as smart a
> person as you
> >>>>>>>>> obviously are, I believe you could find a way to
> instructionally
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> counter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> what you perceive to be a personal attack without stooping
> to the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> same
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> level or escalating things while still satisfying your
> release
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mechanism.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I've read all of your posts over the last two months. I
> know you
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> intellect and the capability. The only question is whether
> you
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> desire. Why not give it a try? I don't see any downside.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Actually, I worded that deliberately. If someone chooses
> to take a
> >>>>>>>>>> person's view, and attack them personally for their view,
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> attack
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> may or may not be "rational". Here's examples:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> John Doe says "Historically, more white collar crimes are
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> committed by
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> white people". Responding to that by saying "John, you're
> a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> racist"
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> would be irrational. The view does not fit the comment,
> because
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> John
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> merely repeating a fact.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> However, if John Doe says "I hate all those white people",
> it
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> would
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> NOT
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> be irrational to say "John, you're a racist", since his
> his view
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> is a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> racist view.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> At the same time, a personal "counter attack" is NOT
> irrational.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> It
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> may
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> be "stooping to the same level", it may be unnecessary, it
> may
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> (and
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> probably does) escalate things, but it's not irrational.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> Countering a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> personal attack with another one is not only rational, it
> can
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> often be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> instructional. And, it's a very good release mechanism.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I would say that those that are offended by such things
> would be
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> well
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> served not to BEGIN them. I will also so, you are the
> exception to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> rule on here, and frankly, one of the few I've seen that
> really
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> has a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> reason to complain.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> If you are a rational person (and I think you are), why
> wouldn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> always repond rationally regardless of what the other
> person does
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> or
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> says?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying in a way that you are more than willing to
> stoop
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> someone else's level? If so, I think you are demeaning
> yourself.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
> >>>>>>>>>>> that's why some of these things sometimes spin out of
> control.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> Stay
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> above
> >>>>>>>>>>> the fray. You're better than that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Apology accepted with one small note. If you were to go
> back and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> look
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> closer at my previous emails, I believe you'd see little
> change
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> in
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm "doing of late". I respond to rational discussions
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> rationally. I
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> respond to irrational ones in a way I feel appropriate.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Hank. When I reviewed the exchange,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it was clear that I misunderstood Hank's message.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I went over the line, and owe Herb an apology.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, of late you have been easier to take, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> your message was rational. I am in the wrong.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hank wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to call foul on this one. Herb came back with a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> reasonable
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your email, did not attack you, was calm and cool,
> and then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> huffy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and complain? You have just lost any credibility or
> right to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> bitch
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone else's posts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hank
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Robert Skinner
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you got the last word - a lot of last words...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You win. I have no further desire to talk to you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satisfied?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mandate? I wasn't talking about a mandate, I was
> talking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> about
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fading off into the sunset.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a big believer in the "mandate" stuff. A
> politician
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter if he's elected by a 1% margin, or
> a 90%
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> margin,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected, and he needs to start fulfilling the
> promises and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commitments
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he made to those that elected him. If Obama can do
> that,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> I'll be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised. I don't think he can, nor do I think he
> will.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> That's
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> why
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly upset by the results.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He made a lot of overt commitments that I don't
> think he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> will be
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and that's not even considering all the
> "implied"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> promises.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected on a campaign of "let's take it away from
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> minority
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to the majority", and LOTS of people are
> expecting more
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> than
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> he
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be able to deliver. Don't pooh pooh those accounts
> of people
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reporting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about how happy they are that he's going to take
> care of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> their
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> gas
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and their mortgages.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then add to that the possible disaster that I see
> looming in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq/Afghanistan. There's no doubt that the "implied
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> promise"
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> was
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he will get us out of Iraq, and begin fighting in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> Afghanistan
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver up Bin Laden.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If he pulls out of Iraq fast enough to suit his left
> wing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> followers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will make Vietnam look like a policy masterpiece. We
> will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> literally
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pulling snatching victory away. If Iraq then falls
> into a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> mess
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened in Vietnam, shame shame shame (I had a typo
> there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corrected, but it still fits - same shame shame).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then, we go into Afghanistan, and have the same
> resounding
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "success"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enjoyed by the Russians. I don't believe we have the
> stomach
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> as
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fight a man to man ground war that is required in
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mountains
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Afghanistan. If we won't let our military succeed in
> Iraq,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> we
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surely
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not in Afghanistan.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, do you REALLY think he's going to deliver up
> Bin Laden?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suspect we're going to be hearing a LOT of "We may
> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> succeed
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> term..."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope though, that people have a good memory. I
> know I did
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> when
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't vote for "read my lips" President Bush '41.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, no mandate needed. He just needs to start
> doing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> what
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> he
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> promised to do. I think the next two years are going
> to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope that the voters
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to mandates, he has done
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot better than his predecessor.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are undeniable advantages to verbal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills when communicating -- a talent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conspicuous in its absence in Bush.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to Reagan, at least he could string a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few words together without tripping on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his tongue -- that was my point. It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> served him well in negotiations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You DO understand the difference between an
> orator, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oratory skills. Surely you're not saying that
> after
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> hearing
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speech to the RNC that she had NO oratory skills?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does having (or not having) an oratory ability
> reflect
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> lack
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence) of anti-intellectual attitudes?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Robert, your guy won the election, but he
> did not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> receive a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mandate for the rest of the world to blindly
> become like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> him
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, you used Reagan as an example, but you seem
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> overlook
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "deep thinkers" and intellectual community were
> saying
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> about
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> him
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For all of Carter's deep thinking and oratory
> abilities,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> he
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> let a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of "students" hold us hostage for over a year. My
> personal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> result
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actions during that disgraceful period were in a
> large
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> part
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for 9-11.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take those radicals, who we were TOTALLY
> unsuccessful in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> dealing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and multiply them by 10 fold. THAT is what the
> orator and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> deep
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinker
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is going to deal with. That's OK though, because
> he's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> already
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear that he's willing to sit down with any of
> them and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> "talk".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll see what the oratory and talk gets us.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Skinner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb, I think that a person who has some oratory
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills will be a help in negotiations with the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> international community. They do not have the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anti-intellectual attitude that has been anything
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but an asset as we interact with the world's best
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brains.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robtert (and others like him) are looking at
> Palin from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> far
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> view. They're somehow under the illusion that we
> WANT an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "orator"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "deep thinker". It's funny the two he compared
> her
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> (negatively)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regan, who the Democrats lambasted much the same
> way
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> they
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> did
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (remember when he talked about Star Wars
> defense, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> they
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derisively calling him Ray-Gun?), and President
> Jimmy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Carter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carter!!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, a great orator, a great guy in general, a
> good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Christian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> man,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> joke of a President. If that's what oratory
> ability and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> deep
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gets us, give me the common man (or woman)
> instead!!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it seems you've bought into the MSM meme
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> haven't
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own homework. I suggest you do your own due
> diligence
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Gov.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very real accomplishments before you let other
> people
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> do
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you. Unlike Obama's long string of failures
> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chicago,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point to real successes. Frankly, I'm not
> impressed by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harvard
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree in law or anything else. For the sake of
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> country,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wish
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a successful Obama Presidency. As for me
> and my
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> family,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "we're
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loaded for bear". How anyone can believe that a
> leader
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> with a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mediocre track record following failed economic
> themes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> can
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successful is beyond me. No one will be more
> happily
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all works out OK than myself.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Robert Skinner
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly, she is no "Great Communicator."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will never see "Bedtime for Palin."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nor, I suspect, will we hear about a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carteresque "lusting in the heart."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, Brad.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But is too early to expect that Bambizilla
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will retire from the political scene. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suspect that the GOP spinsters will find
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some way to use her, perhaps as a contrast,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straw woman, to a real Republican orator
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or deep thinker to spark up the 2012 campaign.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But for the next two years, I hope, we can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get working on the nation's business. We can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope that Obama can calm the fears and tame
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the chaos of an economy headed for the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumpster. We will also see if he can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extricate us gracefully from Iraq and succeed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in bringing down the terrorist franchises.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hoping,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very cute.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And now....before she fades into the sunset,
> some
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> final
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palin....
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "My concern has been the atrocities there in
> Darfur
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance to me
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with that issue as we spoke about Africa and
> some of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that were kind of the people succumbing to
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> dictators
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corruption
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of some collapsed governments on the
> continent, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alaska's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investment in Darfur with some of our
> permanent fund
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dollars"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, she concluded, "never, ever did I talk
> about,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> well,
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gee,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country or a continent, I just don't know
> about this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> issue."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know, I know... her heart is in the right
> place
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> (and so
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few other
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parts).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> R22RumRunner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No Hard Feelings...to the democrats
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The election day is over,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The talking is done.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My party lost, your party won.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So let us be friends,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let arguments pass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll hug my elephant,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You kiss your ass.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **************Get the Moviefone Toolbar.
> Showtimes,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theaters,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movie news &
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more!(
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p://
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> mailing
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> list
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> list
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> list go
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> go
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> go
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> go to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to
> >>>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >>>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Herb Parsons
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Herb Parsons
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Herb Parsons
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