[Rhodes22-list] Politics: How 'Bout That Bill Effros?

Brad Haslett flybrad at gmail.com
Tue Dec 30 18:50:03 EST 2008 

Bill,

It gets better.  I was in the sim all afternoon so I'm just getting
caught-up on the news cycle.  Here is the video -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/28437548#28437548

Obviously the man is very bright and articulate (so is everyone else
in a 30 mile radius of Brownstown).  Blago has some big brass ones and
this is a stroke of political brilliance. The beauty is, Illinois
citizens get a Senator period, perhaps a really great one.  I grew-up
in the era of Paul Simon and Everett Dirksen.  It's been a long time
since the Land of Lincoln had someone of that stature.  This guy may
be The One.

Brad

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> Wally,
>
> Did you notice that Blagojevich just selected someone to serve as
> Senator from the State of Illinois?
>
> The person is black, a Democrat, qualified, and in no way connected (as
> far as we know) to the issue of "selling Obama's Senate seat."
>
> However, the Democrats have backed themselves into a corner of
> Fitzpatrick's making.  They have called Blagojevich (the duly twice
> elected, un-indicted, Governor of the State of Illinois) a liar, and a
> crook--and they have said they will not honor any of his legally
> performed duties based on their decision that whatever it is Fitzpatrick
> has charged, (and the wiretaps he has illegally disclosed) are as good
> as convictions as far as they are concerned.  IN THIS CASE (please read
> the words carefully) the accusation is as good as a conviction.
>
> Both Mr. Obama and Mr. Blogojevich were named as un-indicted co-schemers
> IN THIS CASE.  Mr. Fitzpatrick has charged that both participated in a
> giant "pay to play" scheme in the State of Illinois, and he warned the
> whole nation that "The defendants and their associates put the word out
> loud and clear: YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY IN ILLINOIS."
>
> Mr. Obama is one of the named defendants IN THIS CASE.  The FBI had him
> under surveillance even before he became a Senator.  They produced
> photographs of Obama attending meetings he said never happened.
> Informants described bribes paid to Obama, and the FBI tracked the
> payments right into Obama's bank accounts--the same way they tracked
> Eliot Spitzer's prostitute payments.
>
> What will the Democrats say about Mr. Obama's decisions when he is drawn
> into this case?  Just another "bone-headed play?"
>
> What will you say?
>
> When Mr. Fitzpatrick called Mr. Blagojevich a liar and crook last May, I
> believed him.  When Mr. Fitzpatrick said Mr. Obama was also a liar and a
> crook I believed him also.
>
> Do you believe Fitzpatrick?  Or not?
>
> Bill Effros
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
>> Bill,Get a freaking clue and get off your high horse. Take your own advice
>> and be careful. I have not called anybody a racist. I did not even vote for
>> Obama. Do you think I am calling my self a racist? Your assumptions about me
>> are based on your own ignorance and bias. Play the race card with some one
>> who gives a shit. Do you just make stuff up as you go?
>>
>> I gathered from your dozens (hundreds) of anti O post you hated him. You
>> have called him a liar, crook and a racist. So now you claim you do not hate
>> him. Ok if you say so. I guess you are showing tough love. Frankly I don't
>> care. I didn't vote for O.
>>
>>  Pat B has some good ideas and plenty of bad ones. . Mostly I think his
>> international views are idiotic. I am sure he has a decent IQ.
>>
>>  Every time you bring race up it makes me wonder why.  So ask your self why
>> you responded to MY post with your race implications? Who is guilty of
>> making assumptions? Frankly Bill your response to me was way off base. Race
>> didn't have anything to do with any of my post.You are confused  and  also
>> an idiot  if you think other wise.Were you confused?
>>
>> Oh yeah.....I don't think Israel is over reacting.
>>
>> Wally
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Wally,
>>>
>>> Be careful of falling into propaganda stereotypes.  First, anyone who
>>> disagreed with Obama's candidacy was a racist.  Now, it has become
>>> "obvious you hate".
>>>
>>> I don't "hate" Mr. Obama, so my personal feelings toward him are, by
>>> definition, not obvious.
>>>
>>> Brad, and I, and countless others--including many Obama supporters at
>>> the highest levels--warned the Obama transition team not to permit the
>>> perception of a policy vacuum to encourage world-wide complication of
>>> United States foreign policy objectives.  Mr. Obama had no compunctions
>>> about stating his views on foreign policy prior to his election--in fact
>>> he ran on the platform of repudiating Mr. Bush's foreign policy, and
>>> telling the whole world he would reverse that policy in virtually every
>>> area--including Israel.
>>>
>>> Mr. Obama has repeatedly violated his "one president at a time" mantra
>>> when it suits him, most obviously in the domestic economic policy
>>> sphere, where he is dictating the bills he wants on his desk the moment
>>> he is inaugurated.
>>>
>>> I disagree with Mr. Buchanan on many many things, but an "idiot" he is
>>> not.  He is smart, principled, consistent, and a much better scholar of
>>> American history than I, and most other Americans.
>>>
>>> I do now, and have long agreed with his consistent position that
>>> supporting Israeli attacks on civilian populations comports with neither
>>> our goals nor our values.
>>>
>>> Obama's silence on this matter at this time will hurt him and us
>>> strategically and morally.  We have allowed Israeli politics to trump
>>> our own national interests.  One could easily interpret Team Obama's
>>> silence in the same way we interpreted Team Bush's silence on the
>>> aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
>>>
>>> Lives are being lost right now.  Good will is being flushed down the
>>> toilet.  The voices of peace and reconciliation are being drowned out
>>> both by the belligerence of those on the right, and the silence of those
>>> on the left.
>>>
>>> Winning elections is not supposed to be the end of imposing your values
>>> on the political sphere, it is supposed to be the beginning.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill, I suppose he could say that but shouldn't Bush speak for the US? I
>>>>
>>> am
>>>
>>>> not sure if I agree with Pat. Bush's mouth piece has come out in support
>>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>> the action. For Obama to come out against would be counter productive. It
>>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>> obvious you hate O. Your advice seems foolish. I would advise him the
>>>>
>>> exact
>>>
>>>> opposite.
>>>>
>>>> I think Pat B is an idiot.
>>>>
>>>> Wally
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Wally,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is what Pat Buchanan has to say on this issue:
>>>>>
>>>>> "While the United States must support Israel's right to defend her towns
>>>>> and to strike bases from which Israelis are being attacked, Obama should
>>>>> denounce the collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza,
>>>>> by Israel's cutting off their electricity in the dead of winter and
>>>>> denying them the food and medicine many need to survive.
>>>>>
>>>>> For us to remain silent in the face of this comports neither with our
>>>>> interests or our values. Israel's policy of withholding from the weak
>>>>> and innocent of Gaza, women and children, the necessities of life, to
>>>>> punish the guilty who rule at the point of a gun, is a policy that Obama
>>>>> should declare the United States will no longer support with tax
>>>>>
>>> dollars."
>>>
>>>>> To paraphrase another part of the same article, "Obama can't just sit
>>>>> mute at the table like the 'dummy' in a game of bridge."
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill, What should Obama be doing? Should he fly to Crawford and join
>>>>>>
>>> Bush
>>>
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> vacation? Perhaps go Grouse hunting with Dick C.? Heck what should Bush
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> do?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only control we have over Israel is money. They will do as they
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> please.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If Hanas attacks they will respond. Rightly so. It would be hard fo use
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> be critical of this considering our attack on Iraq.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think Israel is itching to fight and if Hamas continues to provoke
>>>>>>
>>> they
>>>
>>>>>> will get pounded even worse. The last Isreali ops in Lebanon did not
>>>>>>
>>> have
>>>
>>>>>> the normal kick ass results.  I think both Hamas and Hezbollah were
>>>>>> emboldened by the poor Israeli tactics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect Israel will take care of any nuke plants in Iran long before
>>>>>>
>>> we
>>>
>>>>>> feel the urge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you see it different?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 10:50 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 150 people who were alive yesterday morning are dead this morning
>>>>>>> because Israel massively attacked Gaza.  That includes women and
>>>>>>> children because the Israeli's attacked targets at a time that ensured
>>>>>>> civilian casualties.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They attacked when no one in this country was on the job.  Right now
>>>>>>>
>>> we
>>>
>>>>>>> have no President at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obama is on both sides of this issue--where are you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He is not President of USA yet.  You want him stirring the pot like
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Captain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rummy?  He said that there is only one President at a time.  Calm
>>>>>>>>
>>> down,
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> enjoy the holidays.  While the liquor stores are still open go get a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bottle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of Mt. Gay Rum.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>> addendum from where there is a lot of snow:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Think of yourself as on the threshold of unparalleded sucess.  A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> whole,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> clear, glorious life lies before you.  Achieve! Achieve! - Andrew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carnegie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (borrowed from from the cover of the Pennsylvania Travel Guide.)( I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> would
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have expected some of the native Pennsylvanians on this forum to have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> quoted
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that.  Where is Ben C, Frone, John S., et al????)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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