[Rhodes22-list] a new world is coming to the rhodes22 list

[Leland]

Mary Lou said, "There is a line in the charter: "You earn respect on the 
list by your postings and trying to help each other, you cannot 
demand it."  It seems to me that we have strayed far from that and I 
think that it's a sad situation."

Well said.  I suspect that most of the sailors on this list would agree with
you.

Michael & John:  As far as I'm concerned, the effort that you two put into
maintaining this list gives you the right to do whatever you want.  When I
first read the subject line of this post it reminded me of Aldous Huxley's A
Brave New World and the serious consequences of censorship.  I think our
little world will be safe with your changes.  You will likely upset a few of
the political posters and make the overwhelming majority happy, including
me.

If negative postings prevent new sailors from joining the list and cause
respected sailors to leave (Fred don't go!), then it's time for change.

Good luck and thanks for all you do.

Lee
1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
Kent Island, MD



Mary Lou Troy-2 wrote:
> 
> OK. This seems like a perfect example of the problem. Here I've been 
> spending the last few weeks trying to decide if I should bother 
> staying on the list, deleting most of the posts without reading or 
> just give up.  And here it turns out is another local Rhodie that I 
> know nothing about because instead of welcoming him to the list a 
> couple of months ago we attacked him for grumbling about the 
> political content. (I say "we" because I didn't stick up for him or 
> her at the time which I should have done as a long standing member of 
> this group - it seems like it's gotten so that I'm afraid to try)
> 
> So before I slam the door on my way out, Mr/Ms Metaphor, would you 
> care to introduce yourself? (Hint: use a new subject line) I can tell 
> by your references to St Michaels and Eastport that we have covered 
> some of the same territory. There are quite a few Rhodes 22s on the 
> Chesapeake. Where is yours? We are in Rock Hall but usually make St. 
> Michael's, Annapolis & Eastport, Knapps Narrows and the Choptank 
> sometime in the course of a season.
> 
> And Michael and John, thanks for taking this on. I've been on this 
> list for more than 10 years. While we have always been an opinionated 
> and somewhat testy bunch, it seems to me that there has been a 
> noticeable deterioration in the tone of the list in the last couple 
> of years. What might have once passed for passionate opinion now 
> seems angry, defensive, mean-spirited and polarizing with a lot of 
> holier than thou, condescending language being used. I tend to read 
> the first line before deleting a political post and I rarely see 
> anything that indicates respect for someone else's viewpoint. I 
> believe elle once called it schoolyard bullying and that seems about 
> right to me. I think we have lost a number of Rhodes-owning members 
> because of it. I find myself wondering why I haven't joined them. I 
> guess it's because I've met so many of the members of this list in 
> person and know them to be a fine lot. I guess I've been hoping that 
> now that the election is over all of this would subside but it 
> certainly seems like things are only intensifying judging by the 
> quantity of postings that I am deleting daily. I don't have any 
> solutions. There is a line in the charter: "You earn respect on the 
> list by your postings and trying to help each other, you cannot 
> demand it."  It seems to me that we have strayed far from that and I 
> think that it's a sad situation.
> 
> Mary Lou
> 1991 R22  Fretless
> Rock Hall, MD
> 
> 
> At 11:55 PM 12/30/2008, you wrote:
> 
> 
>>MichaelMeltzer wrote:
>> >
>> > 2)      The problem is the people using "mean sprite" , pounding on
>> > people,
>> > people on ego trips that they must change the world by changing the
>> view
>> > of
>> > the members, being a PITA
>> >
>>
>>Thank you.  When I made a couple of outrageously negative posts this
summer
>>towards the the posters who have been challenged the past couple of days
>>(weeks), I had hoped that the tone of the "bar" might ameliorate a bit, so
>>that sailors without agendas might participate in a forum about the Rhodes
>>(one of which I own) and about sailing in general (of which I sail/race on
>>two other boats); neither of which happened.  The vast majority of posts
>>have been about politics, (of which I have my own views) but don't factor
>>into my sailing. I sail boats to get away from that stuff, and the basic
>>conversation about sailing departed this list a while ago.  Now,
>>occasionally there is a sailing post, (which I've read) but that is
probably
>>one-in six-to-ten threads (conservatively) and that is not enough to
qualify
>>as a sailing forum, especially one dedicated to a specific style of
>>sailboat. Simply saying "search  the archives" does not always answer the
>>question asked, and although it does make the old timer on the list feel
>>superior to the newbs... it sends them away with a bad feeling about
Rhodes
>>sailors.  Couple that with the overtly political bent of some of the most
>>verbal posters, and the impression perceived is that this list does not
want
>>nor welcome anyone who wishes to discuss sailing or sailboats, or any
other
>>subject in a non-confrontational manner.
>>
>>I'd like to learn more about tweaking and sailing the Rhodes22, sailing
the
>>Chesapeake Bay, and other waters, wherever they are.  I like reading about
>>trips, techniques and trivia, and I don't enjoy one-sided (right or left),
>>soapboxes. More sailing, and I promise that once the mid-Atlantic sailing
>>season begins again, I'll post some of my sailing adventures, gunkholes,
>>race reports, etc,... if anyone is interested.  If all people want is
>>political diatribe, I will not engage, not out of weakness perceived by
the
>>four or so posters who seem to "own" the "virtual" bar, but because I
>>probably would not engage you in a fruitless discussion in a real pub.
>>
>>I belong to other forums, and none is less topic-oriented as this one has
>>become in the last two years, and although I lurk for the most part,
rather
>>than actively post simply for the sake of posting to hear myself in print,
I
>>would like to see the Rhodes22 forum be more than what it aspired to be. 
To
>>that end, I will refuse to engage in useless argumentation, ad nauseum,
with
>>posters who have only their agendas, and limited interest in sailing
issues.
>>As I said before, there are other forms that are geared toward politics,
>>where the type of argumentation that seems to have hijacked this list is
>>welcomed.
>>
>>Some might say that the list is best as what it is now, but looking over
the
>>archives in the past two months, I have to disagree.  There was a lot
>>contributed by a lot of contributers, few of which bother to post now. 
The
>>value is going down, and the responsible parties (of which I will include
>>myself) are to blame.  Sailors' bars more than naught talk sailing.  This
>>one rarely does. Stop in the MYRC or Carpenter Street in St. Michaels on a
>>Wednesday night, and see how much talk is about non-sailing issues. Go to
>>Oxford, Maryland or East Port, Annapolis, and try to pick a political
>>fight-- you'll either be ignored or called a derogatory name, then
ignored,
>>and if you persist, someone (or a group of someones) will you show you the
>>way out of the bar.
>>
>>Let's get 'da List' back to a sailing list.  :)
>>
>>
>>
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