[Rhodes22-list] Potash Spill at Kingston TVA Plant

Wed Dec 31 10:06:24 EST 2008

Wally,

Sounds like they had the right material available.  It's very easy to get in a hurry, to do it right you can only add about 6" at a time and then only when the moisture content is right. Even when built correctly, mother nature can wreak havoc on earthen dams, just ask New Orleans.  We've built about dozen small ponds in the last three years and walked away from a couple of jobs because the dam height requirements were bigger than our tolerance for risk. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a policy change coming for a double containment system further down the pike, ala Exxon Valdez double hulled ships.  It's a bit late now though.

Brad

--- On Wed, 12/31/08, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com> wrote:
From: TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Potash Spill at Kingston TVA Plant
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 8:44 AM

Brad - East TN is red clay and rock. I built a screened in porch last summer
and of course it rained the day after I dug the holes for footers. The clay
holes filled and stayed filled until I emptied. Solid red clay! I guess it
could be worse. Watts Bar Nuke Plant is around 20 miles down river.

This is the first Potash spill of this magnitude. There was one in PA (I
think) but it was much smaller. This is a real mess and clean up will be
costly.

It saddens me greatly to see my lake polluted like this. The near by area is
well noted for the large Blue Heron rookeries. There are hundreds of nesting
Blue Herons, Green herons, Ospreys and King Fishers in the area. The area is
also home to 2 long term nesting and breeding Bald Eagle families. Luckily
most of these birds are gone for the winter. The river upstream is well
known for trout, otter, and beaver. I feel like the crying Indian in the old
60s anti-litter commercial.

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:04 AM, brad haslett <flybrad at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Wally,
>
> That's a nasty ash gap in that dam.  What kind of soil do you have
there?
> Clay content?  I built two ponds in Middle Tn that all the
"experts"
> including my neighbor with a Vanderbilt civil engineering degree, said
would
> never hold water because of the underlying limestone layer and high sand
> content in the soil.  We disked in soda ash (learned that trick from a
> farmer) and then ran over it with a vibratory drum sheepsfoot roller -
> worked like a charm. Ironically, fly ash is also sold as a soil binder as
> well as a binder in concrete.  We've built a number of ponds in MS
(not my
> brother's primary area of expertise) and went with what we knew worked
from
> previous experience - soda ash  if you can't get enough clay and
> lots-o-compaction.  It will be interesting to see what methods and
materials
> the TVA used. I just got off the phone with Gary from our morning brief
and
> his quick-and-dirty analysis was, "under engineered or over filled,
or both,
> glad
>  we didn't build it!"
>
> Someone's going to take a bullet! I hope it's the TVA but not if
my
> electric bill goes up.
>
> Brad
> --- On Wed, 12/31/08, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Potash Spill at Kingston TVA Plant
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:03 AM
>
> They keep upping the numbers. Latest link with photos and video of the
> area-
> http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/dec/31/toxic-details-released/
>
> from the article ....:On Tuesday, Tennessee Valley Authority spokeswoman
> B.J. Gatten said that prior to the spill there were 9.4 million cubic
yards
> of material in the "dredge cell," and that after the spill, 4
million
> cubic
> yards remained at the site.
> In a toxic release inventory posted on its Web site, the TVA said releases
> into the Kingston dredge cells included the following during 2007:
>
> -- More than 1.4 million pounds of barium compounds.
>
> -- More than 49,000 pounds of lead compounds.
>
> -- More than 142,000 pounds of manganese compounds.
>
> -- More than 44,000 pounds of arsenic compounds.
>
>
>
> The above is not what was spilled but rather the amount of waste generated
> in 07. Locals will not trust TVA to test water so TVA is going to pay
local
> utilities to check water quality. The water intake is just a few miles
down
> river. If the sludge dries some of this can become air borne.
>
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > Here's the latest from the politicians in the area involved -
total
> silence
> > -
> >
> >
> >
>
>
http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/silence/archives/2008/12/elected_officia_2.shtml
> >
> > I've been out of the news loop on this event except my brother
follows
> > these things closely from an engineering point of view.  When we do
> > site work subject to compaction tests, he knows better than all the
> > scientific methods combined whether something is compacted enough by
> > seeing if the machine leaves a track.  It will be interesting to see
> > what construction methods were used and what engineering data was
> > accepted.
> >
> > As Gary always says, "you can't beat a man at his own
> craft".
> > Someone's going to take a bullet on this one - the political
types are
> > ducking for cover.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> wrote:
> > > Wally,
> > >
> > > The reports outside TVA country have downplayed the seriousness
of
> this
> > > event, and the (until now) hidden fact that coal waste disposal
is as
> > > much a problem as nuclear waste disposal.  Any sites you could
point
> me
> > > to would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Bill Effros
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > TN Rhodey wrote:
> > >> I am sure you all have heard about the Potash overflow in
> Kingston TN.
> > >> Kingston is 20 miles west of my home. My boat is slipped
another
> 20
> > miles
> > >> down river from the spill. We cruised near the area in my
buddies
> Boston
> > >> Whaler. What a freaking mess!!!
> > >>
> > >> Wally
> > >> __________________________________________________
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