[Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?

[Michael D. Weisner]

Bill,

Thank you for the history lesson.  I joined in early '06 (found da list by 
accident - Google, I think) and never really heard how the list was started. 
Very interesting story and now it is part of the archives.

Mike
s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
Nissequogue River, NY

From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 
11:32 AM
> Jb,
>
> Michael built and maintained Stan's website.  In return, Stan would tow
> Michael's boat to Edenton every winter, upgrade it, install "test"
> equipment, bottom paint it, and get it back to Michael in time for an
> early launch.
>
> At some point, Michael suggested the formation of an email group so that
> people could ask each other all the questions that Stan couldn't
> possibly respond to...even if he owned a computer, and knew how to use it.
>
> Michael put links on Stan's website so both existing owners and newbies
> could find "da list".  (Remember, Google is only 10 years old -- it was
> difficult for anyone other than a computer geek to find anything on the
> Internet, and email lists were not indexed.)  Almost everyone who got on
> "da list" at that time was sent here by Stan, both from his website and
> from in-person recommendations both before and after boat purchases.
>
> I know I got here because Stan suggested I could learn a lot from people
> on the list.  I know many others who got here the same way.
>
> Michael is one of the smartest people on the planet.  In the early days,
> he would answer 9 out of 10 questions asked.  He talked to Stan
> regularly, and when he didn't know the answer, and felt it was a good
> question, he would call Stan after hours and come up with the technical
> information the rest of us sought.
>
> We hopped onto the Sailnet list server at some point.  They wanted to be
> a web portal for sailers.  They offered free list-hosting.  As they grew
> they encountered growing pains.  They switched software, and lost
> everyone on the list in the process.  Those of us who cared, contacted
> everyone else back-channel and told them what had happened and what they
> had to do to get back on the list.  I believe we had 34 members at that
> point.
>
> Then Sailnet started selling things, and made a rule that no one else
> could sell anything on any list they hosted.  Then they started
> monitoring lists to enforce the rule, and bouncing out people who
> violated their rule.
>
> We started looking for another way to run our list, and Michael came up
> with the Mailman Program which he hosted and maintained as administrator.
>
> At some point Stan learned to use a computer, and started providing
> information directly to the list. What a treat!  When somebody got
> something wrong, or had a better way to solve a problem, the guy who
> built the boat would actually discuss the issue on an open forum!
>
> Michael was plugged into the blogging community before anyone used the
> word "blog".  He would get jokes, and "insider info" and post it to the
> list long before any other sailor had access to what he posted.  Some
> complained that it was "off-topic" but Stan always said he loved it, and
> didn't give a damn if anyone didn't think it was funny, or disagreed
> with anyone else's political views.  And, he said, living in Edenton, he
> wasn't locally exposed to a lot of cultural stuff he took for granted
> living near NYC.
>
> "Bring it on" said Stan, "and don't worry about killing a boat
> sale--this is much more fun--be yourself--respect each other--Michael
> taught me how to use the delete key."
>
> Food fights would erupt from time to time over the exact same issues.
> Politics and Religion were both banned at some point, so people started
> inserting their political views in the form of often vicious jokes.  The
> only way anyone could object to the joke was to explain it in political
> terms. The prohibition against Politics was dropped with the mandate
> that all political discussion had to be preceded on the subject line by
> the word Politics:
>
> How to use filters to toss all email labeled "Politics:" into anyone's
> junk folder was repeatedly explained so that anyone not wishing to see
> this stuff would never even know others on the list were actively
> discussing these topics.
>
> Later, a rule was instituted mandating that Jokes: also appears on the
> subject line when the content is jokes.
>
> ...
>
> At some point the list turned on Stan.  It wasn't anyone's fault, it was
> just the normal evolution of the Internet.
>
> Some of the people who had been with the list for a long time opted to
> purchase other boats. They started singing the praises of their boats,
> on Stan's list, and urging others to trade in Stan's boat for one
> bigger, or better, or more ostentatious.
>
> Then people who would never have been able to find each other started
> selling boats directly to each other, and cutting Stan out of the middle
> -- "Stan offered me $10,000 for this boat, so you know he's going to
> sell it for $20,000 -- I'll sell it to anyone on the list for $15,000."
>
> Then people started offering to fabricate parts for Stan's boat--"Send
> me the specifications on that trailer, and I'll make one for you for 1/2
> what Stan would charge."
>
> Over time they hijacked Stan's list.  Stan objected several times, and
> many people on the list went out of their way to only buy through Stan.
> But, in the end, Stan stopped participating on a regular basis, and took
> the list off his web site.
>
> But, it's still Stan's list, and Stan is still the common link for most
> of us.  He can't use it as a sales tool anymore, but he still can have
> fun with old friends...just as it says in the charter.
>
> I have posted the charter below so all can see what they signed up for,
> if they never took the time to read it previously.
>
> In prior years, Michael would post the Charter at this point--he wrote
> it, but he seems disinclined to do so, so here it is:
>
> *CHARTER*:  *rhodes22*-list at ...
> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=0>
>
> The *rhodes*-list at ...
> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=1>
> group will be  open to discussion of all
> subjects specifically referring to *Rhodes* sailboats  or  *Rhodes*
> sailors. The focus of this group includes, but is not limited  to:
>
> * Encouraging the understanding and discussion of *Rhodes* sailboats  or
> *Rhodes* sailors, in the many ways people wish to define it.
>
> * Acting  as a source of information for  *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes*
> sailors  worldwide and for people planning  to buy/sell/repair/learn
> about *Rhodes*  sailboats or *Rhodes* sailors.
>
> * Providing a forum for the development and  promotion *Rhodes* sailboats
> or *Rhodes* sailors'  culture, history,  traditions and economy.
>
> * Any other subject that might be found at a  sailor's bar or the
> Clubhouse Bar, Including *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes*  sailors' travels,
> events, family, jokes, quotations, pets, etc.
>
> * The  level of discussion does not have to be fit for a child, but
> some good taste  is expected.
>
> Binaries and Formatting: The posting of encoded binaries  (e.g.
> pictures, compressed files, etc.) to  *rhodes*-list at ...
> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=2>
> is  not
> allowed, the list server will remove them. Please use mixed case  when
> posting (Upper and lower case letters), typing words in  uppercase
> means you are SHOUTING.
>
> Quoting: Place new material at the  top of the post and quote what you
> are replying to below. That makes it  simple to find out what is being
> said. You are encouraged to edit down the  quoted material.
>
> HTML mail: Allot of the email programs (Netscape and  outlook) that can
> send their email with embedded HTML. Embedded HTML can  cause some of
> the list members to have trouble reading their mail due to  "browser
> wars", not reading their mail with a web browser and double  messages
> in digest mode. Member are encouraged to set their programs to  send
> "text" email.
>
> Subject Line: Please set or change the subject line  to reflect the
> true subject of the  post. for example "Subject: anchors"  might be
> turned into "Subject: gastank was anchors". If a joke (or  any
> questionable material) is being posted please indicate it on  the
> subject line, for example "Subject: Monday's Humor  (jokes)"
>
> Netiquette: Posts to the group are expected to be considerate of  other
> readers. Personal abuse, flames, and obscenities are  *not*
> appreciated; but we are sailors.......
>
> Anonymous email: It is  expected that users will provide their name in
> the email and will sign  same.  We like to know who we're talking to.
>
> Social  Interaction/Manners: To a certain extent, the interaction is
> about what you  would expect in any informal social setting, for
> example, a bar.  It is  recommended that you get to know people first
> and introduce yourself (about  the same social rules that you would use
> to meet any new group of people).  There is a high level of chitchat on
> the list, and what you might think is  insulting to a group or region
> might only be people kidding each other after  knowing them for years.
> As in any bar, the subjects of politics and religion  can lead to
> heated augments and bar fights. These might be best  avoided.
>
> The need to participate: It is recognized that a group is only  whoever
> post to it, no more and no less. We can only talk about what  people
> post about. You earn respect on the list by postings and trying  to
> help each other, you can not demand it. Most sailing topics we  have
> talked about already, We chit chat in the mean time waiting to  answer
> questions or a new subject/story.  If you want to know  something,
> please post it, the more detail the better. If someone is trying  to
> help you please answer their reasonable questions. If you can  help
> someone, again post it, Try to repay the knowledge you  gained.
>
> Bill Effros
>
> Jb wrote:
>> why do keep saying this is Stans list?
>> Jb
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:53 PM
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>> Who made you the Jello Sheriff?
>>>
>>> This is Stan's list, not yours, and he just told us he doesn't believe a
>>> Jello Sheriff is required.
>>>
>>> Shall I tell you who I think is being a PITA?
>>>
>>> Do you think it will improve the list if everyone conforms to your views
>>> of who is using "mean sprite"?  Only people who submit jokes you find
>>> funny can remain on the list?  If you don't laugh--they're out!
>>>
>>> Whatever happened to that rule about throwing people off the list if
>>> they don't own a Rhodes-22?
>>>
>>> How about syntax rules, and spelling rules?  That should be fun.
>>>
>>> Better drop the rule about people on ego trips.
>>>
>>> Of course, this charter change must be submitted to the entire list as
>>> per our charter.  Does Rummy still get a vote?  How about Ben?  How
>>> about people under your review?
>>>
>>> LOL,
>>>
>>> Your dear friend,
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> michael meltzer wrote:
>>>
>>>> He is the working idea.
>>>>
>>>> 1)      Is the problem is not so much the off subject post, as long as
>>>> the
>>>> are entertaining there is no real issue, funny, informative, nice..
>>>>
>>>> 2)      The problem is the people using "mean sprite" , pounding on
>>>> people,
>>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by changing the 
>>>> view
>>>> of
>>>> the members, being a PITA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To that end.
>>>>
>>>> 1)      in the short: people using "mean sprite" , pounding on people,
>>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by changing the 
>>>> view
>>>> of
>>>> the members. Can and will be suspended buy me and john at our whim, 
>>>> using
>>>> current tools. Willing to listen to some group feedback but really  the
>>>> right to suspend and remove PITA's
>>>>
>>>> 2)      in the long term both me and john no not have the time for 
>>>> this.
>>>> Thinking along the lines of a "trusted" group of people can numerated a
>>>> poster for suspend/remove/band that a larger group of list members can
>>>> vote
>>>> on(the jury, maybe post #/length of time on the list weighted). Web 
>>>> based
>>>> system. Me and john then become the "apples board. The real question in
>>>> most
>>>> cases would be are you a PITA and worth it
>>>>
>>>> 3)      there is a question about a wiki(ben), we tried it once but 
>>>> let's
>>>> try again, it could have broad applies
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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>>
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