[Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
michael meltzer
mjm at michaelmeltzer.com
Wed Dec 31 12:31:57 EST 2008
Bill, please do not under underestimate, the leveled of how pissed off I am
here, frankly I truly debating just taking rhodes22.org down............ I
an truly disturbed by the nasty tone.... you will need a new domain name and
the servives to bring is back up in your image(unless you out source it),
maybe john will work with you but he needs to speak for him self.
-mjm
-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:32 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
Jb,
Michael built and maintained Stan's website. In return, Stan would tow
Michael's boat to Edenton every winter, upgrade it, install "test"
equipment, bottom paint it, and get it back to Michael in time for an
early launch.
At some point, Michael suggested the formation of an email group so that
people could ask each other all the questions that Stan couldn't
possibly respond to...even if he owned a computer, and knew how to use it.
Michael put links on Stan's website so both existing owners and newbies
could find "da list". (Remember, Google is only 10 years old -- it was
difficult for anyone other than a computer geek to find anything on the
Internet, and email lists were not indexed.) Almost everyone who got on
"da list" at that time was sent here by Stan, both from his website and
from in-person recommendations both before and after boat purchases.
I know I got here because Stan suggested I could learn a lot from people
on the list. I know many others who got here the same way.
Michael is one of the smartest people on the planet. In the early days,
he would answer 9 out of 10 questions asked. He talked to Stan
regularly, and when he didn't know the answer, and felt it was a good
question, he would call Stan after hours and come up with the technical
information the rest of us sought.
We hopped onto the Sailnet list server at some point. They wanted to be
a web portal for sailers. They offered free list-hosting. As they grew
they encountered growing pains. They switched software, and lost
everyone on the list in the process. Those of us who cared, contacted
everyone else back-channel and told them what had happened and what they
had to do to get back on the list. I believe we had 34 members at that
point.
Then Sailnet started selling things, and made a rule that no one else
could sell anything on any list they hosted. Then they started
monitoring lists to enforce the rule, and bouncing out people who
violated their rule.
We started looking for another way to run our list, and Michael came up
with the Mailman Program which he hosted and maintained as administrator.
At some point Stan learned to use a computer, and started providing
information directly to the list. What a treat! When somebody got
something wrong, or had a better way to solve a problem, the guy who
built the boat would actually discuss the issue on an open forum!
Michael was plugged into the blogging community before anyone used the
word "blog". He would get jokes, and "insider info" and post it to the
list long before any other sailor had access to what he posted. Some
complained that it was "off-topic" but Stan always said he loved it, and
didn't give a damn if anyone didn't think it was funny, or disagreed
with anyone else's political views. And, he said, living in Edenton, he
wasn't locally exposed to a lot of cultural stuff he took for granted
living near NYC.
"Bring it on" said Stan, "and don't worry about killing a boat
sale--this is much more fun--be yourself--respect each other--Michael
taught me how to use the delete key."
Food fights would erupt from time to time over the exact same issues.
Politics and Religion were both banned at some point, so people started
inserting their political views in the form of often vicious jokes. The
only way anyone could object to the joke was to explain it in political
terms. The prohibition against Politics was dropped with the mandate
that all political discussion had to be preceded on the subject line by
the word Politics:
How to use filters to toss all email labeled "Politics:" into anyone's
junk folder was repeatedly explained so that anyone not wishing to see
this stuff would never even know others on the list were actively
discussing these topics.
Later, a rule was instituted mandating that Jokes: also appears on the
subject line when the content is jokes.
...
At some point the list turned on Stan. It wasn't anyone's fault, it was
just the normal evolution of the Internet.
Some of the people who had been with the list for a long time opted to
purchase other boats. They started singing the praises of their boats,
on Stan's list, and urging others to trade in Stan's boat for one
bigger, or better, or more ostentatious.
Then people who would never have been able to find each other started
selling boats directly to each other, and cutting Stan out of the middle
-- "Stan offered me $10,000 for this boat, so you know he's going to
sell it for $20,000 -- I'll sell it to anyone on the list for $15,000."
Then people started offering to fabricate parts for Stan's boat--"Send
me the specifications on that trailer, and I'll make one for you for 1/2
what Stan would charge."
Over time they hijacked Stan's list. Stan objected several times, and
many people on the list went out of their way to only buy through Stan.
But, in the end, Stan stopped participating on a regular basis, and took
the list off his web site.
But, it's still Stan's list, and Stan is still the common link for most
of us. He can't use it as a sales tool anymore, but he still can have
fun with old friends...just as it says in the charter.
I have posted the charter below so all can see what they signed up for,
if they never took the time to read it previously.
In prior years, Michael would post the Charter at this point--he wrote
it, but he seems disinclined to do so, so here it is:
*CHARTER*: *rhodes22*-list at ...
<http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=0>
The *rhodes*-list at ...
<http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=1>
group will be open to discussion of all
subjects specifically referring to *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes*
sailors. The focus of this group includes, but is not limited to:
* Encouraging the understanding and discussion of *Rhodes* sailboats or
*Rhodes* sailors, in the many ways people wish to define it.
* Acting as a source of information for *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes*
sailors worldwide and for people planning to buy/sell/repair/learn
about *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes* sailors.
* Providing a forum for the development and promotion *Rhodes* sailboats
or *Rhodes* sailors' culture, history, traditions and economy.
* Any other subject that might be found at a sailor's bar or the
Clubhouse Bar, Including *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes* sailors' travels,
events, family, jokes, quotations, pets, etc.
* The level of discussion does not have to be fit for a child, but
some good taste is expected.
Binaries and Formatting: The posting of encoded binaries (e.g.
pictures, compressed files, etc.) to *rhodes*-list at ...
<http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=2>
is not
allowed, the list server will remove them. Please use mixed case when
posting (Upper and lower case letters), typing words in uppercase
means you are SHOUTING.
Quoting: Place new material at the top of the post and quote what you
are replying to below. That makes it simple to find out what is being
said. You are encouraged to edit down the quoted material.
HTML mail: Allot of the email programs (Netscape and outlook) that can
send their email with embedded HTML. Embedded HTML can cause some of
the list members to have trouble reading their mail due to "browser
wars", not reading their mail with a web browser and double messages
in digest mode. Member are encouraged to set their programs to send
"text" email.
Subject Line: Please set or change the subject line to reflect the
true subject of the post. for example "Subject: anchors" might be
turned into "Subject: gastank was anchors". If a joke (or any
questionable material) is being posted please indicate it on the
subject line, for example "Subject: Monday's Humor (jokes)"
Netiquette: Posts to the group are expected to be considerate of other
readers. Personal abuse, flames, and obscenities are *not*
appreciated; but we are sailors.......
Anonymous email: It is expected that users will provide their name in
the email and will sign same. We like to know who we're talking to.
Social Interaction/Manners: To a certain extent, the interaction is
about what you would expect in any informal social setting, for
example, a bar. It is recommended that you get to know people first
and introduce yourself (about the same social rules that you would use
to meet any new group of people). There is a high level of chitchat on
the list, and what you might think is insulting to a group or region
might only be people kidding each other after knowing them for years.
As in any bar, the subjects of politics and religion can lead to
heated augments and bar fights. These might be best avoided.
The need to participate: It is recognized that a group is only whoever
post to it, no more and no less. We can only talk about what people
post about. You earn respect on the list by postings and trying to
help each other, you can not demand it. Most sailing topics we have
talked about already, We chit chat in the mean time waiting to answer
questions or a new subject/story. If you want to know something,
please post it, the more detail the better. If someone is trying to
help you please answer their reasonable questions. If you can help
someone, again post it, Try to repay the knowledge you gained.
Bill Effros
Jb wrote:
> why do keep saying this is Stans list?
> Jb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:53 PM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
>
>
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> Who made you the Jello Sheriff?
>>
>> This is Stan's list, not yours, and he just told us he doesn't believe a
>> Jello Sheriff is required.
>>
>> Shall I tell you who I think is being a PITA?
>>
>> Do you think it will improve the list if everyone conforms to your views
>> of who is using "mean sprite"? Only people who submit jokes you find
>> funny can remain on the list? If you don't laugh--they're out!
>>
>> Whatever happened to that rule about throwing people off the list if
>> they don't own a Rhodes-22?
>>
>> How about syntax rules, and spelling rules? That should be fun.
>>
>> Better drop the rule about people on ego trips.
>>
>> Of course, this charter change must be submitted to the entire list as
>> per our charter. Does Rummy still get a vote? How about Ben? How
>> about people under your review?
>>
>> LOL,
>>
>> Your dear friend,
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> michael meltzer wrote:
>>
>>> He is the working idea.
>>>
>>> 1) Is the problem is not so much the off subject post, as long as
>>> the
>>> are entertaining there is no real issue, funny, informative, nice..
>>>
>>> 2) The problem is the people using "mean sprite" , pounding on
>>> people,
>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by changing the view
>>> of
>>> the members, being a PITA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To that end.
>>>
>>> 1) in the short: people using "mean sprite" , pounding on people,
>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by changing the view
>>> of
>>> the members. Can and will be suspended buy me and john at our whim,
using
>>> current tools. Willing to listen to some group feedback but really the
>>> right to suspend and remove PITA's
>>>
>>> 2) in the long term both me and john no not have the time for this.
>>> Thinking along the lines of a "trusted" group of people can numerated a
>>> poster for suspend/remove/band that a larger group of list members can
>>> vote
>>> on(the jury, maybe post #/length of time on the list weighted). Web
based
>>> system. Me and john then become the "apples board. The real question in
>>> most
>>> cases would be are you a PITA and worth it
>>>
>>> 3) there is a question about a wiki(ben), we tried it once but
let's
>>> try again, it could have broad applies
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
> __________________________________________________
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http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>
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