[Rhodes22-list] Who's List Is It?
Mary Lou Troy
mtroy at atlanticbb.net
Wed Dec 31 17:00:41 EST 2008
Bill you caught me before I was out the door. You are saying
something that doesn't jibe with my memory at all. The Rhodes List
was Sailnet's, clearly. Michael started this list on Rhodes22.org
which is his domain not Stan's. I recall the development of the
charter which was developed by the group. Can't remember if it was on
Sailnet or rhodes22.org but Stan had nothing to do with it. It was
developed by the group and posted on the group's behalf. The charter
says "The list is maintained by rhodes22.org as a courtesy to Rhodes
Sailboats Fans worldwide. It is hoped that the list will promote
discussion about Rhodes Sailboats and provide members with a means of
sharing their interests and experiences."
Mary Lou
1991 R22 Fretless
Rock Hall, MD
At 04:46 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote:
>Mary Lou,
>
>Michael posted a charter on behalf of Stan. I joined the email list
>based on that charter. Stan can't "give" me to Michael. Michael can't
>"give" me to John. They can't change the charter because Michael gets
>pissed and has nothing better to do.
>
>That's the way it is.
>
>If they want to start a new list, and if you and others choose to join
>their list, that is not a problem.
>
>But that is not what they are proposing.
>
>They want to take intellectual property instead of create it or pay for it.
>
>That they can't do.
>
>This is exactly what your publishers were telling you--we won't claim
>authorship of anything you may not own--don't quote Bill Effros on your
>sailing list--don't even quote yourself. These rights are not yours to
>sell or trade.
>
>Bill Effros
>
>
>
>Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> > Bill, I'm not an expert on intellectual property but I think when you
> > post to a list you give the right to your posting to the list
> > provider. I'm not real clear about that but the few things I've ever
> > written for someone else they were very clear about not wanting use
> > anything I'd ever written and posted on the Internet. I don't think
> > ownership is stated in this case but I doubt you have a leg to stand
> > on. You can say you retain the copyright to everything you write but
> > I don't think moving a list from one server to another or the rules
> > evolving give you much of a case to claim violation of
> > copyright. Sailnet and the TSBB moved their archives several times.
> > On the other hand, I suspect John is capable of and might even be
> > willing to erase all of your work from the list.
> >
> > Mary Lou
> > 1991 R22 Fretless
> > Rock Hall, MD
> >
> > At 04:11 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >> Mary Lou,
> >>
> >> The Internet had a lot of trouble early on with service providers
> >> claiming the sites they maintained.
> >>
> >> It has become a real "no-no" and Michael knows it. Please note his
> >> position is "do it my way, or I'll shut the whole damn thing down and
> >> there is nothing you can do about it."
> >>
> >> That is true.
> >>
> >> What he can't do is "give" my work, to John without my permission, and
> >> let me state, here and now, that I do not give John permission to
> >> distribute my work.
> >>
> >> Everything I write has an implied copyright, and Michael does not have
> >> the right to transfer or use it without my permission. I gave my
> >> permission under the terms of the posted charter to Stan.
> >>
> >> If Michael seeks to transfer it, I will insist that John take everything
> >> I have written off his site. This is just like You-Tube, or Tivo. The
> >> Millennium Copyright Act. Federal Offense. Etc. People go to jail over
> >> this issue, and pay HUGE fines for stealing just a little bit of material.
> >>
> >> I suspect many other people will demand that their work also be taken
> >> off the site.
> >>
> >> Also, if John starts sending out unsolicited email, complaints will be
> >> made to service providers. This will create extreme problems for John.
> >>
> >> It's not John's list. It's not Michael's list. They can destroy it,
> >> but they can't use it.
> >>
> >> If they don't like what they've got, they can start their own list. But
> >> they can't hijack my work, or anyone else's.
> >>
> >> Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> >>
> >>> I believe you are wrong.
> >>>
> >>> I believe the mean-spiritedness has steadily increased over the past
> >>> few years. I believe that what we had has already been hijacked by
> >>> those who feel compelled to beat up others with their political
> >>> beliefs and then when the others try to get in a word edgewise to try
> >>> to beat them up with their own words. There is nothing friendly or
> >>> bantering about it. I will not split hairs over "aggressive" vs
> >>> "mean-spirited". I will not condemn anyone's political viewpoint. I
> >>> will condemn the manner in which they present it. I will condemn what
> >>> feels like bullying. I don't think I know any of the people involved
> >>> in this drawn-out and escalatingpolitical diatribe. I seen very
> >>> little in the past couple of years that makes me want to be in the
> >>> same room with them.
> >>>
> >>> I would prefer not to see anyone banned from the list but I would
> >>> prefer to some rules of common respect promoted and if
> necessary enforced.
> >>>
> >>> In my earlier message I said that I disagreed with you that this is
> >>> Stan's list. It is Michael's - he holds the domain and John's - it's
> >>> on his server. They can do what they want with this list without
> >>> endangering your basic freedoms. They are not the government, they
> >>> are individuals with their own rights to do with their domains and
> >>> servers as they please. If you don't like their decisions, you can
> >>> leave or start your own list. If I don't like it I can leave.
> >>>
> >>> Mary Lou
> >>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At 02:53 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Mary Lou,
> >>>>
> >>>> How could you possibly put me in the position of having to defend Herb
> >>>> on the issue of mean-spiritedness?
> >>>>
> >>>> Herb is Herb. We know he is aggressive, but he really isn't
> >>>> mean-spirited, and we both know it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ed is Ed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brad is Brad.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am me.
> >>>>
> >>>> You are you.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rummy is Rummy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael is Michael.
> >>>>
> >>>> And we all know who we are. We all piss each other off from
> time to time.
> >>>>
> >>>> But if I'm in trouble and I need a favor I couldn't ask of anyone else,
> >>>> there are dozens of people on this list I wouldn't hesitate to call, and
> >>>> I know each and every one of them would be there for me no matter how
> >>>> much I had pissed them off recently. And they all know I would be there
> >>>> for them, too.
> >>>>
> >>>> We have been a pretty stable group of adults whose only common
> >>>> characteristic is interest in a silly sailboat.
> >>>>
> >>>> Some of us may be more mean spirited than others, but we have always
> >>>> been able to work that out in the past, and I'm sure we can always work
> >>>> it out in the future, provided we don't allow anyone to hijack what we
> >>>> have built over lo these many years.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Stop putting words in my mouth. I wasn't defending anyone's actions -
> >>>>> simply pointing out past excellence.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mean-spirited is mean-spirited and begets more mean-spiritedness.
> >>>>> That is my point.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mary Lou
> >>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 02:29 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Just a question - so you feel that Rummy's comments that Bush was the
> >>>>>> dumbest son of a bitch we've ever had as president were "an example of
> >>>>>> what list members used to be inspired to do to 'help each other'"?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I hope you see my point...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sorry Brad, I may go sailing in bad weather and I do leave my house
> >>>>>>> regularly but I don't feel I should need a Kevlar vest to participate
> >>>>>>> in an email list with people who like the same kind of boat I do. A
> >>>>>>> sense of humor and a positive attitude maybe but not a Kevlar vest. I
> >>>>>>> haven't been able to see much to be humorous about around here lately
> >>>>>>> even though some of the jokes have been funny. I feel my positive
> >>>>>>> attitude has been beaten out of me. This has gone a long way beyond
> >>>>>>> "a few barbs".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I included Rummy as an example of what list members used to be
> >>>>>>> inspired to do to "help each other". I saw his actions and those of
> >>>>>>> countless others as being in the spirit of the charter and being
> >>>>>>> examples of what we are in danger of losing if we all decide we don't
> >>>>>>> want to be bothered. I haven't been in touch with him. I don't know
> >>>>>>> if he'll be back. I don't know who will be here next week. I'm hoping
> >>>>>>> that there will be a list that I want to participate in.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mary Lou
> >>>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>>>>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At 01:39 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mary Lou,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Rummy was one of the biggest antagonists on the list. Trust me,
> >>>>>>>> he'll get tired of lurking and come back. Everyone, get over your
> >>>>>>>> pity party and put on your Kevlar vests. For goodness sakes, if you
> >>>>>>>> can't take a few barbs in cyberspace you probably shouldn't leave
> >>>>>>>> your house on a sailboat where the weather could turn nasty and the
> >>>>>>>> boom could knock your head off!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 12/31/08, Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] History
> >>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 12:27 PM
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Here's the history as I remember it dating at least to early 1998.
> >>>>>>>> Similar to Bill's but differing in a few key factors. (If people are
> >>>>>>>> going to be using the archives for list history I figured I ought to
> >>>>>>>> post the history as I remember it.)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I believe the early list was a Sail-net email list. Sailnet was
> >>>>>>>> founded in 1994. I don't know when they started their email lists. I
> >>>>>>>> think I found the Rhodes list about the same time we purchased
> >>>>>>>> Fretless in the Spring of 1998 maybe a bit before. It was not a
> >>>>>>>> Rhodes 22 list but a list for admirers and owners of any Rhodes
> >>>>>>>> designed boat. The R22 owners quickly overwhelmed the list and it
> >>>>>>>> became a de facto R22 list. We were delighted to find each other. If
> >>>>>>>> there was another email list before that, it was not a link on the
> >>>>>>>> GB website in early 1996 when we started looking at the R22. There
> >>>>>>>> was evidently a print R22 Owners Association newsletter that ceased
> >>>>>>>> publication in 1991. Sailnet changed owners several times with
> >>>>>>>> impacts on email list reliability and the rules for the
> list. At some
> >>>>>>>> point (2002) our esteemed Michael Meltzer (who did indeed
> help GB get
> >>>>>>>> into the web business in the 90s and was a long-time R22 owner)
> >>>>>>>> offered to host the list on his server. He put it together in one
> >>>>>>>> night using the rhodes22.org domain which he had already used in
> >>>>>>>> setting up the Rhodes owners site on his server. That was
> the genesis
> >>>>>>>> of the current list. For a while people were on both lists but
> >>>>>>>> eventually the Sailnet traffic withered away and Sailnet got rid of
> >>>>>>>> their email lists completely earlier this year. They still have
> >>>>>>>> forums (bulletin boards) and there is still a Rhodes forum there.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In the early days of the list there were several
> gatherings of Rhodes
> >>>>>>>> owners (and wannabees). There was a memorable dinner at Carroll's
> >>>>>>>> Creek Restaurant and another at Buddy's in Annapolis after the Boat
> >>>>>>>> Show. I remember Cam Whetstone carrying his new centerboard cap
> >>>>>>>> around as we waited to get in and Michael Meltzer checking email on
> >>>>>>>> his laptop long before any of the rest of us had heard of aircards.
> >>>>>>>> This was followed by a couple years when Jan Eyres (event planner
> >>>>>>>> extraordinaire) and I (but mostly Jan) planned an after
> hours catered
> >>>>>>>> dinner at the Annapolis Boat Show. Michael arranged the
> passes to get
> >>>>>>>> us in after-hours. Somewhere I still have the pics from that. There
> >>>>>>>> was a memorable gathering at Kentucky Lake. We didn't go but it is
> >>>>>>>> memorialized with pics on the Rhodes owners website. There was a
> >>>>>>>> marriage. There were a couple of gatherings on the
> Chesapeake as well
> >>>>>>>> as well as several mid-winter Chesapeake PlanJams - the last at my
> >>>>>>>> house last January with 30 some people. At this year's Boat
> >>>>>>>> Show (and last year's) we had lunch with Rhodes owners
> from the list
> >>>>>>>> in a mini-gathering organized on the list. These things won't happen
> >>>>>>>> if people sign off the list because of the content or the
> tone of the
> >>>>>>>> conversations.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In the early days, if there were angry outbursts and hard feelings
> >>>>>>>> they mostly went off list. One person (maybe two) did get
> banned when
> >>>>>>>> they couldn't abide by the charter. It was Michael's call.
> It was his
> >>>>>>>> list. Bill is right that Stan used to send people to the list but I
> >>>>>>>> don't think Stan ever claimed ownership. I know that we
> all have felt
> >>>>>>>> a great deal of gratitude to Stan for continuing to build
> and recycle
> >>>>>>>> the boats that we sail with such pleasure. For the most part we have
> >>>>>>>> tried to be helpful to General Boats. My guess is that the link to
> >>>>>>>> the list came off the GB website when politics started getting ugly.
> >>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure Stan still sends people to the list but
> probably only
> >>>>>>>> after they have bought the boat or at least have made the
> decision to
> >>>>>>>> buy the boat.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The list charter was a group effort by members of the list to make
> >>>>>>>> rules that we could live with and still get along with each other to
> >>>>>>>> everyone's benefit.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Rummy, who just left the list, through his own good efforts compiled
> >>>>>>>> an owners list that was available to any member in good standing of
> >>>>>>>> that list. It was invaluable as we got to know each other.
> When Rummy
> >>>>>>>> decided to pack it in, I volunteered to take on the owners list but
> >>>>>>>> life intervened and I didn't get to it. By the time I was ready to
> >>>>>>>> take up the effort the political problems were in full swing and I
> >>>>>>>> wasn't feeling all that eager (not a good excuse just the
> truth about
> >>>>>>>> how I felt at the time). If the list becomes tolerable again, maybe
> >>>>>>>> I'll make another attempt.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mary Lou
> >>>>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
> >>>>>>>> Rock Hall, MD
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> At 12:06 PM 12/31/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That's good history to know.
> >>>>>>>>> When I signed up about 2 years ago, (that seams to be
> when it started
> >>>>>>>>> downhill) I was refered to by Stan also. I saw all the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> political crap &
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> dissappointed....and said so. I got a shorter version of the same
> >>>>>>>>> explanation & then understood. I was told this was not
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> Stans list....by
> >>
> >>>>>>>>> Stan.
> >>>>>>>>> I agree with you nothing should be done different, the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>> charter covers it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> My
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> problem is that some people insult you in such a nice way,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> it's allowed
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ...&
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> when someone comes right out & says it, it's a bad thing. I was
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> disgusted by
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> some of the things said about our last President, I just as
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> disgusted that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> some people won't even give the new one a chance.
> >>>>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:32 AM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Jb,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michael built and maintained Stan's website. In return, Stan
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> would tow
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michael's boat to Edenton every winter, upgrade it, install
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "test"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> equipment, bottom paint it, and get it back to Michael in
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> time for an
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> early launch.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> At some point, Michael suggested the formation of an
> email group so
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> people could ask each other all the questions that Stan couldn't
> >>>>>>>>>> possibly respond to...even if he owned a computer, and knew how to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> use it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michael put links on Stan's website so both existing owners and
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> newbies
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> could find "da list". (Remember, Google is only 10 years
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> old -- it was
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> difficult for anyone other than a computer geek to find
> anything on
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Internet, and email lists were not indexed.) Almost
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> everyone who got
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "da list" at that time was sent here by Stan, both from his
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> website and
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> from in-person recommendations both before and after
> boat purchases.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I know I got here because Stan suggested I could learn a lot from
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> people
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> on the list. I know many others who got here the same way.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michael is one of the smartest people on the planet. In the early
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> days,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> he would answer 9 out of 10 questions asked. He talked to Stan
> >>>>>>>>>> regularly, and when he didn't know the answer, and felt it was a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> good
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> question, he would call Stan after hours and come up with the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> technical
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> information the rest of us sought.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> We hopped onto the Sailnet list server at some
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> point. They wanted to
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> a web portal for sailers. They offered free
> list-hosting. As they
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> grew
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> they encountered growing pains. They switched software, and lost
> >>>>>>>>>> everyone on the list in the process. Those of us who cared,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> contacted
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> everyone else back-channel and told them what had
> happened and what
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> had to do to get back on the list. I believe we had 34 members at
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> point.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Then Sailnet started selling things, and made a rule that
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> no one else
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> could sell anything on any list they hosted. Then they started
> >>>>>>>>>> monitoring lists to enforce the rule, and bouncing out people who
> >>>>>>>>>> violated their rule.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> We started looking for another way to run our list, and
> Michael came
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> with the Mailman Program which he hosted and maintained as
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> administrator.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> At some point Stan learned to use a computer, and
> started providing
> >>>>>>>>>> information directly to the list. What a treat! When somebody got
> >>>>>>>>>> something wrong, or had a better way to solve a problem,
> the guy who
> >>>>>>>>>> built the boat would actually discuss the issue on an open forum!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michael was plugged into the blogging community before anyone used
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> word "blog". He would get jokes, and "insider
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> info" and post it to the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> list long before any other sailor had access to what he
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> posted. Some
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> complained that it was "off-topic" but Stan always said he
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> loved it, and
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> didn't give a damn if anyone didn't think it was funny, or
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> disagreed
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> with anyone else's political views. And, he said, living in
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Edenton, he
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wasn't locally exposed to a lot of cultural stuff he took for
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> granted
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> living near NYC.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Bring it on" said Stan, "and don't worry about
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> killing a boat
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> sale--this is much more fun--be yourself--respect each
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> other--Michael
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> taught me how to use the delete key."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Food fights would erupt from time to time over the exact
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> same issues.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> Politics and Religion were both banned at some point, so people
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> started
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> inserting their political views in the form of often
> vicious jokes.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> only way anyone could object to the joke was to explain it in
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> political
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> terms. The prohibition against Politics was dropped with
> the mandate
> >>>>>>>>>> that all political discussion had to be preceded on the
> subject line
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> the word Politics:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> How to use filters to toss all email labeled "Politics:"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> into anyone's
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> junk folder was repeatedly explained so that anyone not wishing to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> this stuff would never even know others on the list were actively
> >>>>>>>>>> discussing these topics.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Later, a rule was instituted mandating that Jokes: also appears on
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> subject line when the content is jokes.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> At some point the list turned on Stan. It wasn't anyone's
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> fault, it was
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> just the normal evolution of the Internet.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Some of the people who had been with the list for a long
> time opted
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> purchase other boats. They started singing the praises of their
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> boats,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> on Stan's list, and urging others to trade in Stan's boat for
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> bigger, or better, or more ostentatious.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Then people who would never have been able to find each
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> other started
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> selling boats directly to each other, and cutting Stan out of the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> middle
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -- "Stan offered me $10,000 for this boat, so you know he's
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> going to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> sell it for $20,000 -- I'll sell it to anyone on the list for
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> $15,000."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Then people started offering to fabricate parts for Stan's
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> boat--"Send
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> me the specifications on that trailer, and I'll make one for you
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> for 1/2
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> what Stan would charge."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Over time they hijacked Stan's list. Stan objected several
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> times, and
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> many people on the list went out of their way to only buy through
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Stan.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But, in the end, Stan stopped participating on a regular
> basis, and
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> took
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> the list off his web site.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But, it's still Stan's list, and Stan is still the common
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> link for most
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> of us. He can't use it as a sales tool anymore, but he still can
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> fun with old friends...just as it says in the charter.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I have posted the charter below so all can see what they signed up
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> for,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> if they never took the time to read it previously.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In prior years, Michael would post the Charter at this point--he
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> it, but he seems disinclined to do so, so here it is:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *CHARTER*: *rhodes22*-list at ...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=0>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The *rhodes*-list at ...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=1>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> group will be open to discussion of all
> >>>>>>>>>> subjects specifically referring to *Rhodes*
> sailboats or *Rhodes*
> >>>>>>>>>> sailors. The focus of this group includes, but is not limited to:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * Encouraging the understanding and discussion of
> *Rhodes* sailboats
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Rhodes* sailors, in the many ways people wish to define it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * Acting as a source of information for *Rhodes* sailboats or
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *Rhodes*
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> sailors worldwide and for people planning to
> buy/sell/repair/learn
> >>>>>>>>>> about *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes* sailors.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * Providing a forum for the development and promotion *Rhodes*
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> sailboats
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> or *Rhodes* sailors' culture, history, traditions and economy.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * Any other subject that might be found at a sailor's bar or the
> >>>>>>>>>> Clubhouse Bar, Including *Rhodes* sailboats or *Rhodes* sailors'
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> travels,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> events, family, jokes, quotations, pets, etc.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> * The level of discussion does not have to be fit for a
> child, but
> >>>>>>>>>> some good taste is expected.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Binaries and Formatting: The posting of encoded binaries (e.g.
> >>>>>>>>>> pictures, compressed files, etc.) to *rhodes*-list at ...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> <http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17019026&i=2>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> is not
> >>>>>>>>>> allowed, the list server will remove them. Please use mixed case
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> posting (Upper and lower case letters), typing words in uppercase
> >>>>>>>>>> means you are SHOUTING.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Quoting: Place new material at the top of the post and quote what
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> are replying to below. That makes it simple to find out what is
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> being
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> said. You are encouraged to edit down the quoted material.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> HTML mail: Allot of the email programs (Netscape
> and outlook) that
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> send their email with embedded HTML. Embedded HTML
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> can cause some of
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> the list members to have trouble reading their mail due to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "browser
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wars", not reading their mail with a web browser and double
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> messages
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> in digest mode. Member are encouraged to set their
> programs to send
> >>>>>>>>>> "text" email.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject Line: Please set or change the subject line to
> reflect the
> >>>>>>>>>> true subject of the post. for example "Subject: anchors"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> might be
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> turned into "Subject: gastank was anchors". If a joke (or
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> questionable material) is being posted please indicate it on the
> >>>>>>>>>> subject line, for example "Subject: Monday's Humor
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (jokes)"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Netiquette: Posts to the group are expected to be considerate of
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> readers. Personal abuse, flames, and obscenities are *not*
> >>>>>>>>>> appreciated; but we are sailors.......
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Anonymous email: It is expected that users will provide
> their name
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> the email and will sign same. We like to know who we're talking
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> to.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Social Interaction/Manners: To a certain extent, the
> interaction is
> >>>>>>>>>> about what you would expect in any informal social setting, for
> >>>>>>>>>> example, a bar. It is recommended that you get to know
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> people first
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> and introduce yourself (about the same social rules
> that you would
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> use
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> to meet any new group of people). There is a high level
> of chitchat
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> the list, and what you might think is insulting to a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> group or region
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>> might only be people kidding each other after knowing them for
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> years.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As in any bar, the subjects of politics and religion can lead to
> >>>>>>>>>> heated augments and bar fights. These might be best avoided.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The need to participate: It is recognized that a group is only
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> whoever
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> post to it, no more and no less. We can only talk about
> what people
> >>>>>>>>>> post about. You earn respect on the list by postings and
> trying to
> >>>>>>>>>> help each other, you can not demand it. Most sailing
> topics we have
> >>>>>>>>>> talked about already, We chit chat in the mean time waiting to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> answer
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> questions or a new subject/story. If you want to know something,
> >>>>>>>>>> please post it, the more detail the better. If someone
> is trying to
> >>>>>>>>>> help you please answer their reasonable questions. If
> you can help
> >>>>>>>>>> someone, again post it, Try to repay the knowledge you gained.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Jb wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> why do keep saying this is Stans list?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 8:53 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Who Made You the Jello Sheriff?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Michael,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Who made you the Jello Sheriff?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is Stan's list, not yours, and he just told us he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> doesn't believe
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jello Sheriff is required.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Shall I tell you who I think is being a PITA?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you think it will improve the list if everyone conforms
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> to your
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> views
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of who is using "mean sprite"? Only people who
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> submit jokes you find
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> funny can remain on the list? If you don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> laugh--they're out!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever happened to that rule about throwing people off the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> list if
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> they don't own a Rhodes-22?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> How about syntax rules, and spelling rules? That should be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> fun.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Better drop the rule about people on ego trips.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, this charter change must be submitted to the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> entire list as
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> per our charter. Does Rummy still get a vote? How about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben? How
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> about people under your review?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> LOL,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your dear friend,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> michael meltzer wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> He is the working idea.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Is the problem is not so much the off subject
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> post, as long as
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are entertaining there is no real issue, funny,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> informative, nice..
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) The problem is the people using "mean
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> sprite" , pounding on
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> people,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> changing the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> view
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the members, being a PITA
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To that end.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) in the short: people using "mean
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> sprite" , pounding on people,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> people on ego trips that they must change the world by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> changing the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> view
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the members. Can and will be suspended buy me and john
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> at our whim,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> using
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> current tools. Willing to listen to some group feedback
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> but really
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> right to suspend and remove PITA's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) in the long term both me and john no not have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the time for
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> this.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking along the lines of a "trusted" group
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> of people can numerated
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> poster for suspend/remove/band that a larger group of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> list members can
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on(the jury, maybe post #/length of time on the list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> weighted). Web
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> based
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> system. Me and john then become the "apples board.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The real question
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> most
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cases would be are you a PITA and worth it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) there is a question about a wiki(ben), we tried
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> it once but
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> let's
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> try again, it could have broad applies
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> mailing list go to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> list go to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> go to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date:
> >>>>>>>>> 12/31/2008 8:44 AM
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date:
> >>>>>>>> 12/31/2008 8:44 AM
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Herb Parsons
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date:
> >>>>>> 12/31/2008 8:44 AM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date:
> >>>> 12/31/2008 8:44 AM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>
> >> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date:
> >> 12/31/2008 8:44 AM
> >>
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
>__________________________________________________
>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>__________________________________________________
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date:
>12/31/2008 8:44 AM
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