[Rhodes22-list] Marines & Berkeley - More Political Scu

john Belanger jhnblngr at yahoo.com
Sat Feb 2 20:49:13 EST 2008 

you and i both know that they will go too far. and by that time,(shortly, i think,) the majority will have weathered the pink virus and the pink virus will go away. 

Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:  You you going to pretend that this is the first time that members of 
Code Pink have behaved in similar manner? I'd suggest you do a little 
googling. Their actions in the past haven't resulted in the 
self-destruction, and I doubt seriously that this one will.

Too many folks out there gleefully clapping their hands, applauding them 
asserting "their rights".

john Belanger wrote:
> herb,
> she did say she would not have done what those affiliated, immature, not centrally controlled, associate members, of her group did. those members of that group have opened the door for the national organization to be sued for damages, members arrested for trespass, local groups nationwide being barred from protests of any kind. as you may remember, antiwar protests in the vietnam war, civil rights era, and others were held in public places, not on private property. i bet she wishes now, she'd had more control. that group may have self-destructed. when you opt to extend your rights, (push the envelope), you must face the consequences. johnb
>
> Herb Parsons wrote:
> No, it's NOT "her right". It's her right to protest. It's not her right 
> to trespass. It's not her right to chain herself to someone else's 
> property. That's the problem, when someone takes their "right" and 
> extends it because they think their cause is somehow more important than 
> the rights of others.
>
> Sorry John, she's every bit the despot that those military of "many 
> places", she simply has less power. She IS asserting her will on 
> another, in violation of their rights, by force.
>
>
> john Belanger wrote:
> 
>> herb,
>> thats ok. we always go in and out by the garage. how long do you want to stay and what's your drink of choice? i hope you are wrong about how the police would react to a leftist organization being harrassed. in many places in the world, the military would have surrounded the area, hauled the protesters away, never to return, or to turn up in a mass grave. the point i'm trying to make is that all americans have the right to protest against those things they feel are not right. ....and the world looks at incidents like this in america, and wishes they could protest against things in their country without someone coming in the middle of the night. now,ok, i just saw the video of the leader of pink. she's wrong in my opinion but i still think its her right. as i said. recruitment will rise in reaction to this incident. 
>> john b
>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>> Protesting??? You call that protesting? Hey John, I disagree with YOUR 
>> views, how about I come "protest" by chaining myself to your front door.
>>
>> It's idiocy, and I agree with what's been said, if it were a someone 
>> protesting against a leftist organization, the police in that armpit of 
>> a city would be quick to "do their duty".
>>
>> john Belanger wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> i see this as democracy in action. when seen from abroad, it shows that american people can protest against aspects of their military 's actions without fear of a swat team coming down on their heads. cooler heads will prevail. and recruitment might increase due to the backlash. win-win.
>>>
>>> Brad Haslett wrote: John,
>>>
>>> You are picking nits, they pay rent and have a legal right to be there. If
>>> Berkeley wants the Marines out, then let them pass a law much like those
>>> against porno shops. If these people were anti-abortion protesters you can
>>> bet Berkeley's finest would have them hauled off in minutes. When the next
>>> quake hits, let them fend for themselves. In the meantime, cut off their
>>> federal funds.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2008 11:33 AM, john Belanger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>> don't want to nitpick here, but, since when is a military recruiting
>>>> station, a business?
>>>>
>>>> Brad Haslett wrote: Robert,
>>>>
>>>> Here's an update on Berkeley-
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/02/BALTUQKOE.DTL
>>>>
>>>> I posted the link rather than the text so you can see the photos.
>>>> Yesterday, protesters chained themselves to the door of the Marine
>>>> recruiting office for 7 and 1/2 HOURS! Since when is it legal to close
>>>> down
>>>> a business and where are the Berkeley police for 7 and 1/2 hours?
>>>> Congresswoman Lee protested Sen. Demints proposal to de-fund Berkeley by
>>>> saying it wasn't right to deprive children of lunches and citizens of
>>>> first
>>>> responders. I'd say these people don't need to be having children and if
>>>> it
>>>> takes over 7 hours for the police to respond, they don't need them either.
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2008 6:59 PM, Robert Skinner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry to hear about this stupidity - but it looks as
>>>>> though the Leathernecks picked a poor beachhead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any town that does not welcome the Marines does not
>>>>> deserve them. What kind of dweeb confuses the loyal
>>>>> Marines with the leadership and policies that they are
>>>>> sworn to follow?
>>>>>
>>>>> I, for one, am damned glad to have a fellow Marine
>>>>> next to me under any circumstances, whether or not we
>>>>> share political views.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Boys and girls, here is a perfect opportunity to solve our energy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I say we take spent nuclear fuel and dump it right smack in the center
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Berkeley. That, or pull every last federal dollar out of that scum
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> infested
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> city. Brad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Berkeley council tells Marines to leave
>>>>>> By Doug Oakley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> STAFF WRITER
>>>>>> Article Launched: 01/30/2008 01:48:16 PM PST
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey-hey, ho-ho, the Marines in Berkeley have got to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the message from the Berkeley City Council, which voted 8-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Tuesday
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> night to tell the U.S. Marines that its Shattuck Avenue recruiting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> station
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "is not welcome in the city, and if recruiters choose to stay, they do
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> so as
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> uninvited and unwelcome intruders."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In addition, the council voted to explore enforcing its law
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> prohibiting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>> discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation against the Marines
>>>>>> because of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy. And it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> officially
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> encouraged the women's peace group Code Pink to impede the work of the
>>>>>> Marines in the city by protesting in front of the station.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a separate item, the council voted 8-1 to give Code Pink a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> designated
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>> parking space in front of the recruiting station once a week for six
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> months
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> and a free sound permit for protesting once a week from noon to 4 p.m.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Councilman Gordon Wozniak opposed both items.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Marines have been in Berkeley for a little more than a year,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> having
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>> moved from Alameda in December of 2006. For about the past four
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> months,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Code
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pink has been protesting in front of the station.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they
>>>>>> shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," said Berkeley Mayor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bates after votes were cast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Marines representative did not respond to requests for comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The resolution telling the Marines they are unwelcome and directing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> city
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> attorney to explore
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> issues of sexual orientation discrimination was brought to the council
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> by
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> the city's Peace and Justice commission.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The recommendation to give Code Pink a parking space for protesting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> free sound permit was brought by council members Linda Maio and Max
>>>>>> Anderson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Code Pink on Wednesday started circulating petitions to put a measure
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> November ballot in Berkeley that would make it more difficult to open
>>>>>> military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> libraries
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> or health clinics. The group needs 5,000 signatures to make the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> ballot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>> Even though the council items passed, not everyone is happy with the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> work of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Code Pink. Some employees and owners of businesses near the Marines
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> office
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> have had enough of the group and its protests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "My husband's business is right upstairs, and this (protesting) is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> bordering
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> on harassment," Dori Schmidt told the council. "I hope this stops."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An employee of a nearby business who asked not to be identified said
>>>>>> Wednesday the elderly Code Pink protesters are aggressive, take up
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> parking
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> spaces, block the sidewalk with their yoga moves, smoke in the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> doorways,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> are noisy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Most of the people around here think they're a joke," the woman said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wozniak said he was opposed to giving Code Pink a parking space
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> because
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> favors free speech rights of one group over another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There's a line between protesting and harassing, and that concerns
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> me,"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>> Wozniak said. "It looks like we are showing favoritism. We have to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> respect
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> the other side, and not abuse their rights. This is not good policy."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ninety-year-old Fran Rachel, a Code Pink protester who spoke at the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> council
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> meeting, said the group's request for a parking space and noise permit
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> was
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> especially important because the Marines are recruiting soldiers who
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> may
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> die
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> in an unjust war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "This is very serious," Rachel said. "This isn't a game; it's mass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> murder.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> There's a sickness of silence of people not speaking out against the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> war. We
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> have to do this."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the corps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> when he
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> Marines
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> high
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> tale it out of town.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We are confronted with an organization that can spend billions of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> dollars
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> on propaganda," Anderson said. "This is not Okinawa here; we're
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> involved
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> a naked act of aggression. If we can provide a space for ordinary
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> express themselves against this kind of barbarity, then we should be
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> doing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> it."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-mail Doug Oakley at doakley at bayareanewsgroup.com
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Robert Skinner "Squirrel Haven"
>>>>> Gorham, Maine 04038-1331
>>>>> s/v "Little Dipper" & "Edith P."
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Use Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org, Help? www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
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>> 
>
> 

-- 
Herb Parsons
S/V O'Jure - O'Day 25
S/V Reve de Pappa - Coronado 35

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